Book Plunge: The Christian Delusion Chapter 14

Was atheism the cause of the holocaust? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In this chapter of John…..what was his name again…..oh yeah! Loftus! In this chapter, we are looking at Hector Avalos responding to Dinesh D’Souza. Again, I was not going to go through D’Souza again just to respond to Avalos which is something quite bothersome about the book. You can read several chapters responding to works that you might or might not have read but you don’t necessarily have access to. Why not just make the case on your own and tangentially touch other critics who respond?

This time, we’re talking about the holocaust. Was atheism responsible for it? I’ll say outright, no. I don’t think Hitler was an atheist. Could he have had some ideas friendly to atheism? Sure, but he was not an atheist and he was not a Christian either. He was something else entirely.

Avalos starts by talking about Stalin and saying he wasn’t killing for atheistic reasons. Of course, dynamiting churches must have been purely accidental. The thing about Stalin is what he did was entirely consistent with atheism. There is not a single tenet of atheism that Stalin violated by murdering millions of his people.

Avalos also says Communism is a collectivism that was practiced in the early church. However, this was practiced in only one community and when people sold and gave to the cause, they could keep part of what they had for themselves. It was also completely voluntary. No one forced them to give.

Avalos also talks about the couple that died for lying. What they were doing was actually more honor-grabbing. They were wanting to look like people who gave all they had without doing so, intentionally shaming the church. The judgment was swift to show that sin is still treated seriously in the early church. Note also Peter didn’t do the deed himself.

Avalos does rightly point out that Positive Christianity played a role in the Nazi regime. This Christianity was a really anti-Semitic version that made Marcion look friendly by comparison. It is in no way representative of Biblical Christianity at all.

Avalos says that this movement represents a reinterpretation of Christianity, which explains the 25,000 denominations today. Even some Roman Catholics are acknowledging that that number is a myth. However, if we have a version of Christianity show up that is far and away from any connection to the church historical, we can have just grounds for questioning it.

I really don’t plan on responding to much else in this chapter because I am not an expert on Hitler and his stance. I also don’t think it makes much of a difference in the long run. Christianity depends on the resurrection of Jesus and even if Hitler said he was a Christian, regardless of what all he did, that doesn’t change Christian truth. It could be an interesting point to discuss, but let’s not get ignore that Christianity does not depend on this.

Those interested in more should listen to my interview with J.P. Holding on his book Hitler’s Christianity.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Atheist Manifesto Part 4

Should we be concerned about a theocracy? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Theocracy. I hear atheists crying out about it numerous times as if this is the dream of every Christian. Now in some sense, Christians do believe in theocracy. We do believe that one day God will be truly recognized as king throughout the world and that that will come through Christ. This does not mean that we think that that means some men should rise up, claim to speak for God, and enforce one religion by law.

But yeah, atheists always think the latter is what we’re really pushing for. Every Christian wants Christianity to be the law of the land. I can’t remember the last time I met someone who thinks this way, but this person is the exception.

Still, Onfray has a whole chapter devoted to this. One of the starting points is about the Gospels. They were written about a half-century afterward and we don’t have any copies until the second or third century. If anything, most ancient historians would be ecstatic if the majority of works from the ancient world were like that, if not all ancient historians.

Naturally, Onfray appeals to Hitler saying Hitler appealed to the making of the whip by Jesus in the temple. Obviously then, John is responsible for Hitler. Absent is any mention of the effects of Nietzsche on Hitler, whom Onfray spoke of favorably, but hey, double standards are no big deal. Right? It also doesn’t matter that Nietzsche’s philosophy could naturally lead to a Hitler while John’s theology doesn’t.

Later on he has even more claims. The RCC approved the rearming of Germany in the 1930’s. They signed a concordat with Hitler when he took office in 1933. They were silent over the boycott of Jewish businesses, Nuremberg racial laws in 1935, and Kristallnacht in 1938. They provided Hitler with genealogical records so he could know who was and wasn’t Christian. They aided the pro-Nazi Ustachi regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia. They gave absolution to the Vichy regime in 1940. They also never condemned the destruction happening in 1942. They offered a requiem in memory of Hitler and set up a network to smuggle war criminals out of Europe. They also entered into their ranks people who performed tasks for Hitler. Hitler was never excommunicated and Mein Kampf was never on the list of forbidden books. Keep in mind, all of these are presented as facts.

I am not a historian of the time period so I cannot say, but I remain skeptical. We saw the facts that Onfray presented about the existence of Jesus. It sounds more like conspiracy theories and the Vatican is always a favorite topic of those. Also mentioned would be the idea of Nazis having emblazoned on their belts, “God with us” which makes as much sense as saying that atheists in America that spend coins with “In God We Trust” on them must be closet theists.

Of course, Onfray writes about slavery. There will be zero bothering to look and see scholarly responses. Onfray is sufficient with throwing out something and the implication being “This is offensive!” without bothering to see anything that is on the other side. Remember, Onfray’s book has no bibliography or notes of any kind.

There is not much more that can be said. Onfray wants to throw out anything and hope that it sticks and his book is written with no apparent structure. It is the rant of someone who needs to be better informed.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 11/23/2013: J.P. Holding

What’s coming up this Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

If any name makes people think of evil, it is the name of Adolf Hitler. There is even a law of internet debates that the first one to bring up Hitler in a debate loses. If you live in Germany, you cannot order Mein Kampf in German from Amazon. If anyone has been seen as the embodiment of evil, it is Adolf Hitler.

And the cry of so many atheists today is that Hitler was a Christian and spoke highly of Christianity.

Is that true?

My guest this Saturday, J.P. Holding of Tektonics Education and Apologetics Ministry, also my ministry partner, says no. He says in fact that Hitler had a cult group of his own that was called Positive Christianity. It did not originate with Hitler, but it did finds its best fulfillment in the views of Hitler.

In fact, he Wrote a book on this topic called “Hitler’s Christianity.” Holding in this book shows Hitler in fact did not hold to anything that could be remotely considered orthodoxy, like so many other groups today, and that even Marcion would not recognize what Hitler had done with the Bible.

He also answers other charges about the religious beliefs of Hitler. Was Hitler into the occult? Was Hitler an atheist? In doing so, Holding will also point out writers who are not good researchers of Hitler and where they go wrong with their research. There is also for those interested a chapter on which sources that are considered often primary sources are really sources that can be relied upon.

What about those who were by Hitler’s side? Did he surround himself with like-thinking people? Were any of his major leaders devoted to Jesus Christ? Naturally, not everyone on Hitler’s staff would share the exact same views, but what would it mean if someone did in fact hold to orthodox Christianity who was a strong supporter of Hitler so much so that Hitler put him on staff? On the other hand, what would it mean if Hitler surrounded himself with no such people?

What about other charges in relation to Hitler? Didn’t the Nazis have belts that said “God with us.”? Isn’t it true that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler? Aren’t we just using special pleading if we want to say that Hitler wasn’t really a Christian?

And of course, there’s a section on anti-semitism that is supposedly in the Bible. Is the NT an anti-semitic document? What about passages that are often used to show that the work is truly opposed to Judaism?

Of course, anyone interested in seeing about the book is free to go and look at my review that can be found here.

So be listening in this Saturday from 3-5 PM EST to the Deeper Waters Podcast as we talk about Hitler’s Christianity with J.P. Holding of Tektonics.org. The phone number if you want to be a part of the discussion is 714-242-5180.

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters