Deeper Waters Podcast 5/2/2020

What’s coming up? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

What does it take to get you to change your mind? What if you were raised in a religion and everyone around you was in that and your whole life and culture were dominated by that? What would it take to get you to change your mind? What would it take to get you to at least wonder?

For my guest this Saturday, it all started with a simple question.

“How do you know Mormonism is true?”

My guest grew up in Mormonism and all her life she was sure it was true. Then one day a guy she was dating just asked her how she knew it was true. That got her started on a search and she came to the conclusion that it wasn’t true.

Her story then became one of learning from past mistakes and finding out what it meant to live a holy life. It became about how to deal with her parents who were still Mormons and would see her as apostasizing and going into outer darkness because of it. It became not making herself dependent on any man in her life and still getting married and finding true love as a result.

It was a story of how she came Out of Zion.

Which is the title of her book.

And she is Lisa Brockman, my guest this Saturday.

So who is she?

According to her bio:

Lisa Brockman is married to Dennis and is a mother of five passionate kids. She is a twenty-seven year missionary with Cru, a spiritual director, and a graduate of Renovaré Institute for Christian Spiritual Formation. She was raised in a devout Mormon family in Salt Lake City, Utah and adores them. She attended East High, the film site of High School Musical—a small claim to fame. 

Lisa loves journeying with people through their spiritual highs, lows and wanderings, and is passionate about people encountering the biblical God, who offers a love and freedom that has revolutionized her life. She loves to create tantalizing culinary creations for her family and friends, where they spend endless hours at the table sharing life and stories. The beach is her oasis.

While attending the University of Utah, Lisa began dating Gary, a baseball player who called himself a Christian. This relationship catapulted her into a search she had never envisioned for her life. In her determination to prove the truth of Mormonism, she was introduced to the love and grace of the biblical God, who radically changed the trajectory of her life.

——————————–

Graduate Coursework through Cru’s Institute of Biblical Studies and Reformed Theological Seminary

Obtained my Spiritual Direction Certificate through New Way Ministries

Graduate of Renovaré Institute for Christian Spiritual Formation

I hope you’ll be looking forward to this episode. I hope we have others up before too long as well. This May is all lined up with guests ready to get you equipped.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Please Thank Your First Responders

In time of quarantine, do we appreciate the hard workers we have? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

My brother-in-law is a firefighter. Even before that happened though, my wife had instilled in me a deeper admiration for them. By these people, I refer to the firefighters, but also the policemen and the EMTs. In this time of quarantine, these people are still out there and active.

Too often, especially with police officers, sometime a bum rap is given to them. When we watch action movies, usually the good guys are having to run and escape from the police and we get what’s going on. The policemen are not villains. They’re just doing their jobs, but we love to see them being outwitted by the “hero.” (And let’s face it, for something like a heist movie, the policemen really are the heroes and we are actually cheering for the villains.)

Are there some bad officers out there? Yes. There are black sheep in every profession out there. As one in ministry, I can assure any reader I have met my share of people in ministry that I think have no business being in the ministry. However, the majority are just people wanting to do some good for God. (Although for a lot of them, a little education would really help them out.)

The thing is that these people are really willing to risk their lives for us. Police officers can leave their families at home in the morning and have no real certainty that they will ever see them again. Every time they pull over someone on a traffic violation, they realize that that could be someone waiting for them with a gun.

Firefighters will rush into burning buildings trying to get everyone out. Think especially of events like 9/11. First responders were going in, many no doubt sure they were going to their deaths, while most everyone else was heading out.

Whatever you might think of Sean Hannity, I remember hearing him once say that when he’s in a restaurant and he sees policemen come in, he pays for their meal. If I had money, I would really like to do that one. I really wish I could. These are people who are to be held in great admiration.

So what do Allie and I do? When we see these people, it’s always “Thank you for your service.” If possible, I will roll down my window and pull over just to thank a police officer for their service.

And really, I don’t think these people get that enough. If anything, I suspect most of them could go home and say “You won’t believe the compliment someone gave me today.” To some extent, we all like getting compliments. Why not make sure those who are risking their lives get them?

Thank a first responder that you see today. They are the heroes out there at all times.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Be Watching

Should a Preterist be watching for the coming of the Master? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So as we read through Matthew 24, we saw in much of the discourse, I think it has already happened. Around verse 35, a shift takes place, but am I being consistent? I mean, do I think there is something to look forward to, a coming of some sorts? Yes. Even in this part, we have a warning.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

For this, I do believe it refers to the physical return of Christ. It is consistent for me to look out the window in front of my computer here and ponder, “What if it was today?” In some cases, it could be more consistent for me to do that than a dispensationalist.

In that paradigm, there always seem to be signs about what is happening next. Maybe you need a red heifer for example, to which some people are actively trying to breed one because the Almighty obviously needs help with this one. Maybe you need a temple to be built. Maybe you need something going on with the nation of Israel.

For me as a Preterist, I have just one requirement. The Gospel needs to be being spread throughout the Earth. We need to be doing evangelism. There is a verse in 2 Peter 3 where it says that in doing this, we may speed His coming. I find that an amazing idea. You can do something to have it be that Christ will return sooner?

So we should be watching? Yes. Naturally, this doesn’t mean you don’t do anything else at all. The servant is to be watchful for his master returning to the house, but he’d better still keep taking care of the house! It won’t be fitting for him to be up on the roof (Which in those days was more acceptable) looking out and making the servants do everything else while he just watches for the master.

As a Preterist then, I indeed hope the Lord returns soon and I believe in watching. These are warnings still worth heeding today. Perhaps we would all do better if we lived with the future in mind some.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

What Orthodox Preterism Means.

What does it mean to be an Orthodox Preterist? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Over the weekend, I had a friend call me about speaking at a conference and said, “You’re a Full Preterist. Right?” I immediately insisted that under no circumstances was that not my position. Absolutely not. Then I was asked if I was a Partial Preterist. I replied that no, I am an Orthodox Preterist. What does that mean? It means I believe Jesus will bodily return someday and there will be a bodily resurrection of the righteous and the wicked.

I was told that this is often talked about in literature as if it is Partial Preterism. I recognize that and I know many scholars even use the term, but I fully insist that it not be used. Words have a meaning and when it comes to eschatology, my wording and meaning is precise.

I consider what is known as Full Preterism to be a heresy. After all, we are to be raised as Jesus was raised and if we are just raised spiritually, then Jesus was raised spiritually. The common reply to this is that Jesus is the exception, but this is a cop-out. To say that Jesus will return in the future has always been a part of historical Christianity.

I prefer to give the title of Neohymenaeanism to the movement known as Full Preterism based on the heretic mentioned in 2 Timothy. Why would I not accept the term of Full Preterism then? Because if I think Full Preterism is a heresy, and I do, then if I am just a Partial Preterist, then does that mean that I am a partial heretic?

After all, would you want to be a Partial Arian? Would you want to be a Partial Modalist? Would you want to be a Partial Adoptionist? Of course not. Why would anyone accept a viewpoint that makes theirs a partial heresy?

I realize my friends who are dispensationalists disagree with me. That is fine. I would hope that they would realize that everything I believe about eschatology, while they might think it wrong, it does not deny any orthodox tenets of Christianity. I still hold to the physical and bodily return of Jesus in the future and that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the wicked. In the same way, I disagree with them thoroughly, but I am very hesitant to call any position a heresy. That really has to be earned. Believing in the future return of Jesus and the bodily resurrection doesn’t make me a futurist in any way. It’s just a sign that I’m a Christian.

So when you ask me my position, I am an Orthodox Preterist. I am not a partial heretic. I could be wrong on my Preterism, which I highly highly doubt, but I do not hold to any heretical belief with it.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: The Bedrock of Christianity

What do I think of Justin Bass’s book published by Lexham Press? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Justin Bass’s book is a book to look at what scholars across the board are saying about the historical Jesus in regard to His resurrection. This is a wonderful book that has great data, humor, and a nice pastoral touch. It is not only short and powerful, but it is also fun to read.

Bass also thankfully starts at the beginning with dealing with mythicism severely. He is familiar with Carrier’s work and does the work to show that this is not a claim that is taken seriously. From there, he goes point by point through the historical Jesus to show what is said.

Each chapter is a good number of pages long and has quotes all throughout to back everything Bass is saying. In the early chapters, Bass makes no argument really about the resurrection of Jesus. He instead saves that for the very end. If you go through the book, you will get a great plethora of quotes that you can use.

The humor in the book is really good. At one point, for example, Bass is making the case about what it means when we say that Paul was zealous for Judaism. He compares it to several zealous figures in the Old Testament, including Jehu who destroyed as much of King Ahab’s family as he could. He ends by saying the life of Jehu is a great bedtime story to read to your children. I found myself wondering what it would be like if he teamed up with Andy Bannister or Michael Bird to write something.

He also gets a pastoral touch. Now in some ways, this isn’t my favorite part because too often if you point to something like this, skeptics of Christianity will just discount everything you say as if the only reason you have for believing in Christianity is emotional. There is nothing wrong with emotional reasons playing a part though in your worldview thinking. We are emotional creatures as well as rational creatures for the most part. The stories are quite powerful thinking about the unique life Jesus lived and how His life has transformed the lives of others.

The appeal at the end is very evangelistic. Bass wants you to at least consider taking the claim seriously. He can accept that if you come to the data and say, “I don’t know what happened” that’s one thing you can say, but he urges you to not stop there. Isn’t it really worth looking into? Isn’t it worth considering?

In the end, he gives an argument for the resurrection based on this and the importance of new creation. Jesus didn’t just come and rise again so we could know Christianity is true. He rose again so that He could bring about the new creation. The new has come. The old has passed away.

In conclusion, Bass’s book is highly accessible and one worth reading by skeptic and Christian alike. I give it a full recommendation.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 4/25/2020

What’s coming up? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Mawwiage. Mawwiage is what bwings us togethew today. Mawwiage, that bwessed awwangement, that dweam within a dweam. And wove, twue wove, wiww fowwow you fowevah and evah… So tweasuwe youw wove.

So was it said in the Princess Bride, that great classic of all time. That blissful union of man and woman together shapes us all. The couple has their dreams come true of finally being united and is off on their honeymoon. May it last forever! After all, marriage is made in Heaven.

Unfortunately, so is thunder and lightning.

The joke is the couple will stand up and say “I do” and then the next day be saying “What did I do?” Yes. Prince Charming has bad breath, bad gas, burps after he finishes a meal, and leaves his dirty underwear on the floor. That Princess who couldn’t keep her hands off of him when they were dating doesn’t want to have sex now that they can, nags him about doing the dishes, gives him a honey-do list constantly, and insists that he not be snitty with mother.

I guess the honeymoon is over.

How do people make it? How do you not only survive in this institution but really come to enjoy it? For that, I am bringing on a guest I have wanted to have on for some time. She was scheduled to be on in February when we normally talk on marriage, but she had a sickness and couldn’t make it so now she is coming on. She is the blogger at To Love, Honor, and Vacuum and her name is Sheila Wray Gregoire.

So who is she?

According to her bio:

Popular blogger and speaker and award-winning author Sheila Wray Gregoire loves encouraging women to grow in their relationships, both with God and with their husbands, kids, and friends. The author of eight books, including 9 Thoughts That Can Change Your Marriage, Sheila mixes humor and real-life stories to help women deal with the messy problems many of us face. She is the 2012 winner of the top literary prize for Canadian Christian books for The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and her blog, To Love, Honor and Vacuum, is one of the top 25 Mom blogs on the web.

Growing up the only child of a single mother, she learned two things quickly: God is close to those who are lonely, and marriage is a sacred thing. The void that she felt in her early life has been transformed into a passion to help women find their worth first in Christ, and then to make their relationships mirror His. With her trademark humour and light touch, Sheila is able to drive home scriptural truths in a challenging yet inviting way.

Shortly after moving to Belleville, Ontario, when her girls were young, Sheila began writing for magazines. In 2003, her first book, To Love, Honor and Vacuum was published, followed rapidly by several more. She began to speak all over North America, keynoting at national denominational events, such as the Coffee Break conference and the Baptist Women’s convention, and leading workshops at large conferences like the MOPS convention and at BreakForth. She also speaks at women’s outreaches and retreats, sharing her story of finding God even in the darkest times. These don’t just include rejection as a child, but also walking through the horrible valley of losing her son Christopher. Through it all, Sheila learned that God is enough, a message she desperately wants other women to cling to and understand.

Sheila’s background includes two Master’s degrees from Queen’s University, with one in Sociology and the other in Public Administration. Her real education, though, has come as she has learned to be a wife to Keith, a busy pediatrician, and mother to Rebecca and Katie. Sheila and Keith homeschooled their two daughters, who are now university students in Ottawa. And Sheila is getting used to being a mother-in-law to her new “son”. Sheila is one of the few people in her immediate family who is not actually a physician, so she spends her life in doctor circles, on medical missions trips, and medical conferences. But she still faints at the sight of blood.

And she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.

I hope you’ll be looking forward to this. I think this will likely be a very entertaining episode and hopefully informative. Hopefully, we’ll walk away with better marriages or be better prepared for our future marriages.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:37-42

Do you want to be taken or left behind? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

We all remember the Left Behind series. I tried to go through it listening on audio. I couldn’t. I got through about three books and found the whole thing abysmally boring. The book I read even ended on some cliffhanger and I never cared for how it would work out.

It’s not just because I disagreed with the whole theology of the book. The Da Vinci Code was awful history and ridiculous, but I actually thought the story was enjoyable. On the other end, I think the Harry Potter books are just awesome literature and I thoroughly enjoyed them. All of these books I also read audio.

However, the whole thing about Left Behind is that you don’t want to be left behind. When Jesus comes, He comes to take away the righteous and those who are Left Behind get to go through the tribulation period. After all, look at what these verses say.

37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. “

These people miss the rapture. Right? They’re left behind. Right? Well, no. Jesus has said nothing in the text about coming and taking away people. If anything, this is a passage of judgment. We see this in the parallel in Luke 17.

22 And he said to the disciples, “The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.” 37 And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”

This is all about how to avoid judgment. Vultures gather at corpses which means there are going to be a lot of dead people here. That’s just like in the flood of Noah. When people are taken, it means that they have died. In reality, you do not want to be taken. You want to be left behind.

The series has it wrong. Those who are left behind are the ones who are fortunate. It’s the ones who are taken who are the victims of judgment.

When Christ returns one day, I want to be left behind.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:36

Should you make a prediction? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I have a contention that the Olivet Discourse has switched from a this to a that. I think it’s likely Jesus is talking about a return someday. At this verse, verse 36, I want mainly to put a call out to those who disagree with me. Let’s look at the verse.

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

A lot of you will remain futurists and/or dispensationalists. That’s fine. I can’t convince everyone and there are good Christians on all sides. However, I beg you that if you want to remain in that camp, please do not be one of the people that either sets up a prediction on when Jesus is going to come or supports those who do. The moment you hear someone tell you when Jesus will return, disavow them immediately.

We have too many people that are waking up everyday and trying to interpret the Bible with the help of a newspaper. Please don’t do this. Every time someone has made a prediction so far, it has been wrong and it has just given more fodder to skeptics of Christianity. Jesus said no one would know and that should rule out any attempt to guess.

I have seen some people say “Well, we can’t know the day, but maybe we can know the year.” This is just being ridiculous frankly. The main thing Jesus tells us throughout this is to be prepared. Time spent trying to guess the date could better be spent in preparation.

It’s also pretty arrogant of you to think that everyone else in history who has done this has got it wrong, but you are the one who will get it right. Please do not try. If anything, I think many dispensationalists should be concerned about how past events were read as modern fulfillment only to be shown to be false later on. How many people have said XYZ was the antichrist only to have that person die?

And yes, this includes national figures. Personally, until we get some sort of public apology from John Hagee on his idea of the four blood moons, then we should not listen to him whatsoever. (Actually, that would be good practice in general) It would be interesting to take note in a Christian bookstore of all the books on prophecy and see how many of them are irrelevant just ten years later.

So yeah, no one knows. Please don’t even try. Be a dispensationalist or a futurist if you wish, but please do not go this route.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Worldviews and the Problem of Evil

What do I think of Ronnie Campbell’s book published by Lexham Press? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

If there is any objection normally raised up against theism, it is the problem of evil. How can a good God allow so much evil in the world or any evil even? The argument from my perspective is not the most rational or logical, but it does have a strong emotional appeal. As I write this, our society is on lockdown from fear of a virus and even before this point, atheists were already making memes about God allowing or not doing anything concerning this virus.

In this book, Campbell looks at how different worldviews answer the problem of evil. He deals with naturalism, pantheism, panentheism, and theism itself. Each topic is dealt with the same way. In the end, there is more examination of theism since this is where Campbell lies and he spends more time on defenses of it. In each chapter, he also looks at the best defenders of each position.

Each worldview has to deal with the following questions: Life, human consciousness, the metaphysics of good and evil, and human responsibility. At this, I would have preferred the first two be left out. Let’s suppose we grant the positions of life and consciousness as questions to be set aside for the moment. If we look at just evil itself, how well does each worldview explain it?

Campbell does treat each view fairly and then looks at theism. Here, I would have also liked to have seen more distinction. He focuses naturally on Christian theism, but I was hoping in the book to see a comparison between Islam and Judaism and perhaps even deism as well. Campbell makes the Trinity a necessary part of his defense, so Islam would definitely have some problems, but couldn’t Judaism possibly work still since it would be open to incarnation, resurrection, and Trinity? After all, the first Christians were open to all of these and were Jews.

I was pleased to see the engagement with New Testament scholarship when talking about the Trinity. Campbell looked at some of the best research on this and if you’re not familiar with it, you will gain enough to be basically cognizant of the issues. This is explained in a way that is easy to understand as well.

Campbell also has some questions about classical theism. I really did not find them convincing as a classical theist myself. Still, it is not necessary to Campbell’s book that you embrace his view. I did appreciate his critique of open theism, however.

The final chapter also deals with the defeat of evil and looks at questions such as the nature of Heaven and Hell. While I am not a proponent of conditional immortality, I don’t think many of them would find his arguments in this case tenable. There was some said on Heaven, but I think more needed to be said.

If there was something else I would add, it would be a brief chapter on those who are dealing with suffering right now. What advice does Campbell have for us when we are in the midst of the pain? At that time, the intellectual arguments don’t really help out that much. I realize this book is not meant to be a pastoral book, but that would be something good still to have.

Overall still, this is a very thorough work on the problem of evil and atheists who want to use it as an argument need to deal with it. It’s also a rare book that deals with pantheism and panentheism on the problem of evil as well. Now maybe someone who studies this more will go forward and look at Judaism, deism, and Islam more on evil.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Not Liking Scripture

Should you always enjoy Scripture? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Sometimes I meet people who tell me they just look forward to getting up and reading the Bible every day. They just find such great delight and get a new insight every time they read it. Personally, I don’t really believe such people. The more prone someone is to tell me how spiritual they are, the less I am likely to believe them. The more someone tells me what a struggle their Christian walk is, the more I believe them.

Last night, I talked to someone who told me they recently read the Bible for the first time and as a Christian, there was a lot of stuff they didn’t like. I think this is something very real. If anything, I admire it. I don’t think highly of people who read through the text and never have any questions about it or get troubled by it whatsoever.

This person was wondering why Abraham would decide to sleep with his concubine or why Moses wasn’t allowed to enter the promised land. I really think these are good questions. I don’t want to go into them here, but I think they are good questions.

The point I wish to establish with this is someone who is wrestling with these questions is someone who is taking the text more seriously. Sadly, by those standards, some atheists online take the text more seriously than some Christians. The problem is most of those atheists never bother looking for answers to the questions. It just becomes, “I don’t like this, therefore the Bible is wrong and Christianity is false.”

When we read the Bible, we see the blemishes and faults of the characters. It’s not a pretty picture. David, the man after God’s own heart, is a murderer who can’t keep it in his pants. Moses is a murderer with a temper. Solomon, well, we all know how much he loved the ladies. In the New Testament, the apostles many times seem to be bumbling idiots that even Jesus Himself is exasperated with.

But there are also other parts of the Bible I don’t like. I don’t like being told I need to love my enemies. I’d like to do many things to my enemies, but love isn’t one of them. I don’t like being told I have to put others before myself. Personally, I’d love to be at the center of my own universe. I don’t like being told I have to forgive those who wrong me. I think it would often be more fun to sit back and plan a nasty revenge.

These are all things I am told to do though, and when I do them, I find I grow to be a better person regardless. Are they easy? Of course not. If they were, everyone would do them.

And honestly, I think this is the real problem many skeptics have with the Bible, especially in the area of sex. So many times when questions begin to arise, it can be because a member of the opposite sex is involved. If Christianity did not have high standards such as sex only within marriage and marriage is to be for life, then I think it would be more popular to people, but God’s ways are indeed not our ways.

As you read your Bible, realize it’s okay if it’s difficult or boring sometimes or you find things you don’t like. Still, I encourage you to keep wrestling with the text and asking the hard questions. They have been asked for years. However, it is foolish to ask a question and not seek an answer. That’s where too many atheists stop. Go find the answers. You might find that in the end, though you still don’t like everything in there, you respect the text a lot more.

In Christ,
Nick Peters