Month: October 2009

Welcome back everyone to Deeper Waters. Readers by now know that we are in a Trinitarian Bible Study. We have been going through the Bible looking at what we can find on the doctrine of the Trinity. Right now, we are in the Pauline epistles and tonight, we are going to start the pastoral epistles which begin with 1 Timothy. Our verses tonight will be 15-17. Let’s go to the text:

¹⁵Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. ¹⁶But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.¹⁷Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

To begin with, let’s be sure we’re all at the same ground on the cross. Christ Jesus came to save sinners. Paul realized that he was the worst. This is my contention with any of us if we look at the cross. We have to be able to say that we are the worst. None of us can look at the cross and say “Well geez. I’m a pretty good guy. I’m not that bad.” No. There is no room to lift yourself up at the cross.

Paul sees this as the basis for his being shown mercy however. Since he is the worst of sinners, Christ can show how awesome his grace is. Note that he speaks of the unlimited patience of Christ. Christ is willing to forgive the worst of sinners and is therefore willing to forgive anyone.

However, couched in that is the statement that all who believe on Christ will receive eternal life. Paul makes the focal point again be the response to Christ. In the Old Testament, we would expect the response to YHWH to be the main reason, but in the New Testament, it is the response to Christ.

The next verse is a doxology to God, but I find it important since I believe these same attributes are given to Christ and if that is the case, then we see Paul would have here been including Christ within the divine identity.

In fact, we see John did apply these to Christ. For his eternality, we saw that Jesus was in the beginning with God. There never was a time when the Son was not. We will see this more when we get into the wonderful epistle of the Hebrews.

John again reminds us of the immortality of Jesus in that no one can take the life of Jesus, but he willingly lays it down. Jesus could die in his humanity, in that his soul could be separated from his body, but he could not die in his deity. He could not cease to exist.

Now as a man, he is of course visible when in the body, but Jesus in his deity is invisible. We know this because he is the one through whom all things came, including matter, the instrument by which anything is seen by material beings.

Paul’s statement is a statement of monotheism. However, it is not a statement of monotheism that excludes Jesus from the divine identity. One can believe in a divine identity with multiple persons and still be a monotheist.

We shall continue this tomorrow.

Welcome back everyone to Deeper Waters, hopefully one of your favorite blogs to increase your understanding of the Christian faith in relation to apologetics and philosophy. Tonight, we’re going to conclude our look at the Trinity in 2 Thessalonians by looking at chapter 3. We have a strong message on who Jesus is right at the beginning of this chapter. We’ll be going from verse 1-5:

¹Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. ²And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men, for not everyone has faith. ³But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one. ⁴We have confidence in the Lord that you are doing and will continue to do the things we command. ⁵May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.

We have at the start the message of the Lord, and as we have seen, Lord consistently refers to Jesus. Due to the eschatological emphasis of this book, the constant mentioning of the Lord Jesus Christ could serve as a reminder of the one through whom God will fulfill his eschatological plans. Again, we are not going to get into the secondary points of eschatology, but all eschatological viewpoints can agree that the work of Christ being central in eschatology reveals a high Christology.

Paul wants his readers to know about evil men who are troubling him. Paul encourages his readers to pray for him as he continues the spread of the gospel along with his colleagues that they will be delivered from such men. It is easy to skip over this point, but the next verse reminds us of something revealing. After all, how would the readers do this other than by prayer?

Yet what does Paul say? The Lord is faithful. In essence, Paul is saying that the Lord is the one who is hearing their prayers, which would point to his omnipresence in being able to hear the prayers of all the believers in Thessalonica. Furthermore, he is seen as powerful in that he is able to strengthen all the believers. In the last point, he is able to stand against the evil one. This is hardly light terminology to be used to describe Christ!

He then says that their confidence is also in the Lord. Again, Paul could be pointing out the eschatological significance of the Lord, but let us not overlook the fact that it is the Lord that he keeps emphasizing. For Paul, Christ was central to the Christian life even in prayer.

Finally, it is the Lord who he hopes will direct their hearts to the love of God. There is no way to get to the love of God unless one goes through Christ. You will not find any love that does not come through him in some way. Insofar as that happens, it is Christ who will be the one who perseveres the people as they face the evil of their opponents in the love of God.

Tomorrow, we begin the pastoral letters.

Hello everyone! Today is being a really good day! There have been two compliments, one of which was a very friendly endorsement I just found out about! It is such a joy when you know that what you are doing in ministry matters. Enough time later on to celebrate however! Tonight, we’re going to be looking at 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17. Let’s go to the text.

¹³But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. ¹⁴He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. ¹⁵So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.¹⁶May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, ¹⁷encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

I hope that those of you who have been reading this blog for awhile have noticed the need to look for Trinitarian passages.  I also hope that any new readers will also notice that need. I chose this passage tonight because it is thoroughly Trinitarian.

Notice that the thanks go to God at the beginning, so here we have the Father being referred to. What is next? They are loved by the Lord. By the Lord, we of course have  learned that this normally refers to Jesus and we have no reason to think otherwise in this passage. Finally, there is the mention of sanctification through the Spirit. The Spirit is the one that comes and brings about holiness in the lives of the believers.

Paul continues mention of the work that is going on. Believers are the ones who are called by God. God is the subject of this section, but the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ are not absent. This was done so we could share in the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe this means that when the time comes that Christ is exalted before all the world, that it will be a known reality for all the world. We will participate in it in that we will be giving glory to Christ and he will honor us for honoring him.

Finally, Paul asks that our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God the Father encourage the believers in Thessalonica. The Lord Jesus Christ himself refers to the unique position that Jesus holds in the thought of Paul. Jesus himself is to be the one who is encouraging. Note also that Paul speaks of God the Father, which is a point we’ve noticed numerous times. There was a distinction that was being made. Paul doesn’t say “God and Lord” as that could refer to one person, but he takes both titles of deity and applies one to Jesus and one to the Father.

Once again, we see that in even a basic encouragement, Trinitarianism is essential for Paul.

Good evening everyone. Things have gone well for me today. I’m in a really good mood as we start off tonight and let’s hope it lasts. I appreciate everyone who has been praying for me as I do believe as I ponder it that those prayers are being effective. Those who know me know that I depend on the support of those closest to me in many ways.

Moving on to the blog, we’re going to be starting 2 Thessalonians tonight and we’re going to look at the 1st chapter. Our verses will b2 6-10:

⁶God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you ⁷and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. ⁸He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. ⁹They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power ¹⁰on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

I spoke yesterday of the need to abandon the constant idea we have of gentle Jesus meek and mild. Now in some ways, Jesus is meek and mild. That’s to sinners who are repentant and come before him seeking his love and mercy. For those who refuse him however, he does not have any such attitude.

Notice how Jesus is the one who comes as judge rather than YHWH in this case and he is surrounded by fire. In the OT, fire was a constant symbol for the judgment of God. Our God is said to be a consuming fire. Fire is also used as a picture of Hell, which is spoken of in this passage as everlasting destruction. (I do hold to the traditional view of Hell as everlasting torment, but that is not the point here.)

The reason for this is the rejection of his gospel. It is his good news. He is the one who is the focal point of the gospel. The gospel tells of all that God did in Jesus and through Jesus. It is the gospel that God sent his Son and let his Son be crucified on a cross and raised his Son from the dead in vindication. In this way, to deny the Son is certainly to deny the Father.

Note also what happens. This will be the day he comes to be glorified among his holy people. In the OT, it was always about the people of YHWH who were to be holy. In the NT, it is about Jesus and his people. His people are the ones who are to be holy and instead of YHWH being glorified, it is Jesus. As Trinitarians, this is what we expect to see.

We are not surprised at all by this passage but rather find that it fits in perfectly with Trinitarian thought. Jesus is the focal of the gospel and he is the one who is to be glorified and the one who has a holy people amongst whom he will be revealed. How is it one can miss the connection between this and YHWH In the Old Testament?

Hello everyone. Thank you again for the prayers and I do ask that you all keep praying for me. I am working hard on making some needed changes in my life. It will be a process and a painful one, but it is one that needs to be done. For tonight however, we are going to finish the book of 1 Thessalonians by talking about the Day of the Lord. I will be quoting verse 2 of the fifth chapter:

²for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Now once again, I wish to remind you readers that we are not going to get into eschatology tonight. I instead wish to focus on the topics that all Christians agree on. I wish to bring up this passage because in the Old Testament, the Day of the Lord is a frequent appeal and we find that that hasn’t changed in the New Testament.

When the prophets spoke about an event called the Day of the Lord, they were making reference to the idea of a king who would be so powerful that he would defeat all of his enemies in a single day. Now I don’t believe that the Day of the Lord necessarily always refers to the same day, but it did refer to a time when YHWH would vanquish his enemies.

When we move over to the New Testament however, it is Jesus who is seen as the Lord. In the fifth chapter and in much of 1 Thessalonians, the Lord refers to Christ and it is the day in which he comes and defeats his enemies.

What this tells us is that Paul had no hesitancy to take this imagery of YHWH and apply it to Jesus. Just as YHWH in the Old Testament would be the one who came and defeated his enemies, in the New Testament, it is Jesus who comes and defeats his enemies. Now how you handle that eschatologically will be up to you. This blog does not go into that.

This should also reveal to us something of how Paul saw Jesus as a judge. Too often, we have thought of gentle Jesus meek and mild. Jesus is the good shepherd, yes, but the good shepherd is the one who comes and deals with those who are attacking the flock. Do not forget for a moment that he is the Lion of Judah.

Throughout the rest of the chapter in fact, we see a constant reference to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his wrath. He is the one who is the judge and we know from John that judgment has been entrusted to the Son. He is the one before whom all will bow someday. 1 Thessalonians should help remind us of that. When we come to Jesus in the text, we must remember that he is not just loving but he is also just and that he does take sin seriously and that he does have wrath.

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Deeper Waters. I wish to thank everyone for praying for me this weekend and for my safe travels. Those who know where I was know that I had an awesome time and have decided to work harder on being the man I ought to be. I ask everyone continue to pray for me as I believe there is much that I need to work through.  For now, we are going to return to 1 Thessalonians and continue our study of the deity of Christ. Tonight, we’re going to go to a passage that the Jehovah’s Witnesses use to demonstrate that Jesus is Michael the archangel. We will be reading 1 Thess. 4:16.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Now I know some of you might have a hard time believing it, but I plan on discussing this verse without getting into eschatology. If you want to talk about when you think the rapture will occur, then you’ll have to go somewhere else. We are only looking at this passage insofar as it relates to who Jesus is.

I’ve not heard this one used often by Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I do want to bring it up as some do. Now I don’t think it’s heretical to believe Jesus is Michael. Some Christians have been open to that. It’s my understanding that even John Calvin held to that.

Of course, if one holds to this, this is okay provided that they do not deny who Jesus is in his deity. I personally do not believe that Jesus is Michael, but I am not going to think someone is cut off from the body if they think that because  a number of strong Christians throughout history have thought that.

Now how do the Witnesses use this verse? They will look at it and say that if Jesus is returning with the voice of the archangel, then it is obvious that he is the archangel Michael. When I heard this in a class at our church, I raised my hand and made a point and only found out that I had jumped the gun. Now my answer didn’t come straight from me to be fair, but it was in the memory, which I say to remind you that few of us will come up with original answers and we should all be willing to learn from those who have gone before us.

The question to ask is “Then doesn’t having the trump of God make him God by the same standard?” The Witnesses seem to routinely interpret part of a verse how they want and then ignore the other part and refuse to interpret it the other way since that will go against their doctrine.

Now does this passage prove the deity of Christ? No. I’m not saying it does. Part of what we need to do however is not just present the positive side but give the answers to the negative side. Remember all in apologetics that it is important to do both. Build a positive case and be ready to answer criticisms. On the flip side, if you can destroy they the case against the deity of Christ but not make one for, you’ve only done half the job. We as Christians must always be prepared to do both.

Welcome everyone to Deeper Waters. A word before I forget in doing tonight’s blog. I will be out of town this weekend so after tonight, there will not likely be another blog until Monday.  I ask my readers for their prayers this weekend. It will be a big one and I want it to be a really good one as well. I’ve spent some time learning about myself in preparation for this weekend and I pray I’m the man I am supposed to be.

Tonight, we’re going to start our look at 1 Thessalonians, which is accepted to be a genuine Pauline letter. We’re going to be in the first chapter and looking at verses 4-10. Let’s go to the text:

⁴For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, ⁵because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. ⁶You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. ⁷And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia. ⁸The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, ⁹for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, ¹⁰and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

I chose this passage because it is thoroughly Trinitarian. All throughout this passage, we have references to God, to Jesus, and to the Holy Spirit. Some items worthy of mention include the imitation of the Lord, a reference to Christ of course as only Christ walked the earthly life, but this common reference to him as the Lord is what is noteworthy. We already see at work this usage of Lord in reference to Jesus and God to the Father, as if there needed to be an explanation already.

Note also the message given by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who inspires the gospel and it is his message that is being conveyed in the preaching of the gospel. This would lean towards a high view of the Spirit which has already been seen as the one who empowers even the very delivery of the message in verse 5.

Note also that Jesus is identified as the Son of God at the very end as the one who delivers from the wrath to come. Now I’m not going to enter into an eschatological debate, but what the wrath is is clearly a divine judgment in some sense and Jesus is seen as the one who delivers us.

There is also the reference to the living and true God. What does this mean for Trinitarianism? Not a problem for sure. As a Trinitarian, I can speak of any one person of the Trinity as being in the true and living God. The only problem would be if the assumption of unipersonalism was in play. Since it is not, I do not have a problem.

There is much in here and I urge readers to look over this passage. If you’re one who marks in your Bible, you could consider three different colors of highlighers and going through and using a different color to reference a different person of the Trinity. This might be an interesting exercise to do with the whole of Scripture.

Okay! Pray for me this weekend! See you all Monday!

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Trinitarian Commentary here at Deeper Waters. We are in the Pauline epistles now and tonight, we’re going to finish up Colossians. We’ll be in the fourth chapter and we’re looking at the third verse. This isn’t about the deity of Christ per se, but it brings  it all together. We will simply quote the verse and give a synopsis of what this book has said about the person of Jesus Christ. Having said that, let’s go to the text:

³And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains

How have we come through this book? We began looking at Jesus in his role in relation to creation. (I always feel so odd saying “relation to creation.”) We saw that Jesus has the supremacy in everything. We also saw the problem with saying that Jesus is created in that it makes one fall right into the heresy that Paul is writing this letter against.

Because of that, we saw the problem with the Jehovah’s Witnesses teaching and that ironically, this passage supports the idea of Jesus as the center of all. We saw that all things in existence (Other than God of course) depend on Jesus for their existence. He is the sustainer of all that is.

The next day, we saw that Jesus is the focal point of the world in that he is the one through whom God has revealed himself. We saw that all knowledge lies in Jesus and that this must be a monotheistic belief system as well so that no other lesser gods could be allowed, another blow to the heresy Paul was disputing with and a counter to the Witnesses.

We also saw that Paul is not against philosophy in what he said and I encouraged you dear readers to read the philosophers. I believe every Christian should be familiar with the great philosophical thought that has taken place throughout the ages.

We finally saw that Christ breaks apart political and social barriers as well. We saw that all class distinctions fall apart in him and all racial distinctions. This means for us that all are invited to approach him equally and he will receive all who come.

What do we get from all of this looking at what Paul says in this letter. We get a very dynamic picture of who Christ is. Now I will grant that many scholars do not see this as an authentic Pauline letter. If it is however, it is one of the most amazing letters with a high Christology at a very early time.

I will also say what some have asked me about this study. This has been a blessing to me as well. I have been learning just as much going through here and now see after this study how much depth is in this letter on the person of Christ that I never noticed before and look forward to the next time I can discuss it with a JW.

Tomorrow, we shall begin 1 Corinthians.