Category: Book Plunge

Book Plunge: Hearing the Voice of God Chapter 4

Should your conscience be your guide? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In this chapter, Newton tells us that God speaks to us through our conscience and that if you carefully study the New Testament, you will see this. Unfortunately for him, only if you read it from a Western individualistic mindset. For those from the biblical mindset in which the book was written, conscience was the mindset of the group, not the individual. You did not do anything that would violate how you appeared before the group.

No. Ancient people didn’t go by feelings.

Consider King David. He knew in the law it was wrong to sleep with Bathsheba, but he did it. When does he repent? When he is called out on it. Then he knows he has violated the standards and then does he pen Psalm 51.

Newton talks about one time he heard foul language in his mind and he began to bind the devil to make him leave. (Yes. Because the #1 way the devil will take you down is by using words that are deemed dirty.) Never mind that Scripture tells us to take every thought captive and not bind the devil, but Newton is told the Spirit told him it wasn’t the devil but him because of content he was watching with foul language.

Look. I never use profanity, but I don’t think it’s a big deal if others do provided that not every other word is what is deemed a curse word. I find it strange when I talk about Diehard as a Christmas movie and some Christians say they won’t watch it because of profanity. Never mind that there’s a lot of other reasons I can think of that some people probably shouldn’t watch, but yeah, somehow profanity jumps up there to the top of the list.

Our attitude towards profanity could sometimes be a bigger problem than profanity itself.

But ultimately, the problem is Newton just takes a few references to conscience and then equates that with the voice of God, which is dangerous territory. It is going incredibly beyond the text. Not only that, but some people have damaged consciences. Some people are overly scrupulous about matters when they shouldn’t be. Some people are way too lax when they shouldn’t be.

Our personal emotions are often not very good at telling us hard and fast rules.

Now if only when it came to making moral decisions we had some sort of guide that we could use. If only there was something like a book or something like that that contained general principles of wisdom that could be useful in helping us know how we ought to live.

This brings us back to one of the big problems with this movement. I am sure it is not the intention of the people who are teaching this, but generally, Scripture takes a backseat to whatever the person is thinking or feeling at the time. We are already a culture of narcissists. This just makes us more so.

Next, we’ll look at other ways the Spirit leads according to Newton.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

 

Book Plunge: Hearing the Voice of God Chapter 3.2

What about nudges?

So I goofed a little. I apparently got ahead of myself with chapters and one section was the introduction so I am calling this 3.2. Awkward, but what am I to do? I make mistakes.

So Newton now says the second way God speaks to us is by an inward nudge, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. He turns to Romans 8 and at least this time gives some surrounding context to verse 14. Unfortunately, none of this addresses the point.

He talks about being in services where he knew something was not being said right and he couldn’t show it, but that little nudge told him what was being taught was wrong. The problem is, I can’t exegete an experience like this. I have no context and then what about the times that nudges come and everything is actually right, or at least right enough? There might be something wrong, but it’s not heretical. Newton gives no measure for this. It is easy to accept a test when you accept all that agrees with you. Mormons do it regularly with the burning in the bosom.

Naturally, the next passage he goes to is the still small voice of Elijah. Do you know how many other passages refer to the still small voice?

None. Not a one. No other prophet says anything. Jesus says nothing about it. Paul says nothing. No apostle speaks anything about it.

But this movement has banked so much on this verse.

Never mind that in the very passage, the still small voice says NOTHING and later God speaks to Elijah in an audible voice as he had just as when the narrative of the aftermath of the showdown with the prophets of Baal started. This is not to be taken as a normative passage. It is our modern hubris that insists that this event that happened to Elijah is supposed to be just like what happens to us. Strangely, that never includes having food be miraculously prepared for us.

He then goes to Proverbs 20:27

The human spirit is the lamp of the Lord
    that sheds light on one’s inmost being.

Newton then says this means the Lord will use your spirit to give you guidance. What? Does my spirit know something that it is not telling me? The idea really here is that God is capable of searching us and knowing our inmost hearts. It is not about God giving us guidance. It is a message of warning that God knows our inmost being.

I wish these people who spoke about how we need to treat the Scriptures so seriously would follow their own advice.

Now this next part is amusing really:

But someone may say, “How can I know when I am being led by the inward witness? Can you give me an example?” Well yes I can. One very specific experience I remember along this line happened when I was a younger minister of the Gospel, just learning some of these things. I was at a church service on one of our family islands. A minister had preached, and afterward walked to the back of the church. This particular church had wooden pews. The minister slowly walked up to the front of the building touching each pew as she walked up. Then she said something to this effect, “If you did not feel anything when I touched your pew, something is wrong and you need to come to the altar.” Immediately, somewhere down on the inside of me, it seemed like someone was ringing a doorbell. I heard something, not with an audible voice, just a strong inward knowing, an inner witness. I heard, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Newton, Sheldon D.. Hearing The Voice of God: Discerning God’s Voice From All The Other Voices (pp. 16-17). Sheldon D. Newton. Kindle Edition.

He then goes on to say that

When I got back home, the Spirit of God, through the Word of God showed me that He never judges His relationship with us based on physical feelings. Our walk with God should be based upon His Word, not upon how we feel. Feelings change. The Word however, remains the same.

Newton, Sheldon D.. Hearing The Voice of God: Discerning God’s Voice From All The Other Voices (p. 17). Sheldon D. Newton. Kindle Edition.

And yet, what are we judging what God is speaking with here but an inward nudge? Also, I would not need such a nudge myself to know that what this preacher was speaking was nonsense. You just had to know your Bible.

He then tells a story about how a man was waiting at a red light and when it turned green had a nudge that told him to not move. At that point, a car sped through running the red light. The problem is again, I can’t exegete an experience. Even if I accepted this, why should I take it as normative? My claim has never been that God cannot speak. It is that it is not to be normative.

Next time, we’ll see what Newton has to say about the conscience.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Hearing the Voice of God Chapter 3

How does God speak? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

This chapter comes with the heading of the #1 way God speaks. Now if you asked me, I would say God has spoken best by Christ and we see that revelation revealed to us in Scripture. We don’t have the incarnation among us now, but we do have the account of His journey on this Earth.

Let’s see what Newton says.

At the start, he says this:

Hearing God’s Voice accurately is a must in these trying times. To not know or recognize His leading can cost a person his or her life, literally.

Newton, Sheldon D.. Hearing The Voice of God: Discerning God’s Voice From All The Other Voices (p. 11). Sheldon D. Newton. Kindle Edition.

A must? Well, I seem to be doing just fine so far. Meanwhile, I know plenty of people who make disastrous decisions that go against the path of wisdom because they are convinced God is telling them to do something. You know, what would be really good is if we had some one source that was a depository of the wisdom that God had for us, maybe like a book….

Not a shock, but Newton goes to the passage of “My sheep hear my voice” immediately. Let’s see. If I went to that time period, I’m pretty sure everyone there who was in the audience heard Jesus speaking. Thus, everyone who was in the audience was one of His sheep because they all heard His voice. Right?

“But it’s not a literal voice!” you say.

Correct. The voice is the call to salvation. It is not a still small voice of the heart. Jesus never says anything like that and this text has not just been ripped out of context. It has been taken in a stranglehold and beaten relentlessly until the text will confess what HVG teachers want it to say.

Newton then goes to Romans 8:14 about being led by the Spirit. Of course, he doesn’t look at the text. He just wants to find out what the key saying is in the text and then put his idea of what it means to be led by the Spirit in there. I suggest we look at the surrounding context.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

If you do this, you see that being led by the Spirit is being put in contrast to living according to the flesh. This is not about hearing a voice to help you make decisions. It’s about being faithful to what we know in Christ and living a moral life.

Newton then rightfully says the #1 way God speaks to us is by His Word, but then looks at John 16L13 saying that the Spirit will lead us into all truth and then John 17:17 with “Thy Word is truth.” He then says the Spirit will quicken the Word inside of us so that we can live as we ought. If that is what he wants to say is the work of the Spirit, I have no problem with that.

The problem is that Newton doesn’t do what he says. He points us outside of the Bible to the idea that God will still speak to us today. If God is saying something to us today like that, then should that not count as Scripture?

Newton rightly says that any leading that goes against Scripture is not of God, but I have to ask why do I have to take something completely subjective like this and compare it when I have something that I do know comes from God? Why do I have to take a practice never done by anyone in Scripture and follow that when I have the Scriptures themselves? It’s as if Newton is really just paying lip service to the Bible but his main emphasis is on the experience. It would be better to write a whole book on how to better read and understand the Bible, but alas, more people think it’s preferable to just have God give you the answers.

Next time, we’ll see a problematic way God allegedly speaks with inward nudges.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Hearing the Voice of God Chapter 2

Does God speak to us today? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So now, Newton says that since we have reasons why we should hear from God, let’s see what the Scripture says. Of course, having reasons why does not mean that it will happen. I can think of plenty of reasons why a lovely young lady should want to marry me. So far, I still remain divorced.

To make his point at the start, Newton’s first passage of Scripture is from Psalm 115:

Not to us, Lord, not to us
    but to your name be the glory,
    because of your love and faithfulness.

2 Why do the nations say,
    “Where is their God?”
3 Our God is in heaven;
    he does whatever pleases him.
4 But their idols are silver and gold,
    made by human hands.
5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
    eyes, but cannot see.
6 They have ears, but cannot hear,
    noses, but cannot smell.
7 They have hands, but cannot feel,
    feet, but cannot walk,
    nor can they utter a sound with their throats.
8 Those who make them will be like them,
    and so will all who trust in them.

Unfortunately, this proves too much in Newton’s case. He has looked at one part in verse 5 and tried to say that this is a statement about YHWH. It is not. It is about the idols. The Psalmist is saying that based on all the characteristics the idols have, they should be able to do what fits those characteristics. They can’t. That does not mean in itself that YHWH can.

However, while YHWH is certainly omnipotent, if Newton interprets this passage to be about YHWH, then he needs to be consistent. He needs to say YHWH has a mouth and can speak, eyes and can see, ears and can hear, a nose and can smell, hands and can feel, feet and can walk, and a throat that can make sound.

Which is actually materialistic concept of God that would be more akin to Mormonism. Yes. I know about the incarnation but God in His essence does not have a body.

The next passage is Hebrews 1:1-2.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Yet once again, we have a problem, The text says God has spoken by His Son. First ,the soken is past tense. Second, it does not say God is speaking by a still small voice or dreams or internal nudges or feeling a peace or anything like that. That has to be added to the text. Newton even says about this text that God speaks to us through His Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is NOWHERE in the text. It is only the Son.

Next is John 16:13-15.

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

This is said to the apostles. Does Newton give any warrant for applying it beyond them? None. It is just assumed.

The last is John 14:26 where the Holy Spirit will teach you all things. Newton adds we need to establish this fellowship by spending time in the presence of God. The problem is Jesus NEVER says anything like this. Not a single Biblical author says you need to learn to spend time in the presence of God to learn how to hear His voice. This doesn’t mean I am opposed to time in prayer and Bible study. Far from it. I am opposed to doing so for the wrong reasons.

So thus far, nothing I have seen establishes the claim and more argues against it.

Next time, we will look at what he says about the way God speaks.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Hearing the Voice of God Chapter 1

Why do I do this? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I had recently finished Priscilla Shirer’s awful book on this chapter and figured I could read another one when I found one on sale in email notifications. So I downloaded it to my Kindle and found lo and behold, it was only 32 pages. Good thing I got it on discount. You can read this easily in an hour or so, and it will be time horribly wasted. Anyway, the book is available here if you are interested.

I realize I am a lone voice in evangelicalism saying something like hearing the voice of God is not meant to be a normative practice, but I will say it. I must stand for what I see as biblical truth and against what I see as a dangerous threat to biblical truth. It is mind-boggling to me how such a movement as this has caught in with people who claim the Bible as their sole authority.

The first chapter is about why Sheldon Newton wrote this book. The first is that God is our creator and since He has a perfect plan for our lives, we should want to know what it is. That God is our creator will receive no pushback from me. That He has a perfect plan will. This is stated nowhere in Scripture and frankly, since we’re all sinners, if there was a perfect plan, we would have all blown it already.

The second reason he wrote this is because there are so many prophets and prophetesses out there and we need to know who is of God and who isn’t. Well first off, if we can all supposedly hear the voice of God, why should I need to listen to anyone else? Is God’s voice insufficient?

The next point is I discount anyone immediately who puts a title on their name like that. Call yourself an apostle or a prophet or something similar and I don’t listen. Send me a Facebook request with those titles on there and it will be a hard pass.

He then says with mediums and physics running around, it would be good that we are not deceived. No. That is not a typo. He says physics. That being said, again, I have to ask. Is Scripture insufficient?

The fourth is that we need to stay focused on Christ and what is good for our lives. Again, I agree. The problem once again rises up. Is Scripture insufficient? It’s amazing that Protestants who are to have a high view of Scripture discount it so easily with this nonsense.

The fifth reason is that many children of God have not learned to hear the voice of God. Thank God for that one. Maybe these people will do something radical like, I don’t know, read the Bible more? Maybe focus less on what they’re feeling and everything around them and focus on Scripture? We couldn’t have that could we?!

The sixth reason is that Newton has seen years of people being deceived by erroneous doctrines. Geez. That is a problem. If only we had something like a book that God had left us that we could know came from Him that we could study and learn what we needed to learn. Pipe dream. Right?

The final reason he gives is that many people are running to prophets and others to get what they think is a real word from the Lord. Again, it sure would be nice if we had a sure word from the Lord that we could count on. If only there was some work like, again, maybe a book, that had stood the test of time and could be trusted as the Word of the Lord.

Well, those are his reasons for why Scripture is insufficient, I mean, why we need to hear the voice of God. Let’s see in the next section how well he does at arguing for that position.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

Book Plunge: God Doesn’t Whisper

Is God whispering to His people? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Buy this book!

Seriously! What are you waiting for? Buy this book!

As I kept going through this book, I was thinking “I wish I could put this in the hands of every evangelical Christian out there!” The problem pastor Osman is speaking about is one that is present throughout the church. It is the idea that God has a will for your life and He is trying to tell you what it is and you need to be listening for it.

Osman goes after this entirely and he has done his homework looking up the claims of people who teach this and reading their books. I have read books like this here as well and every single one of them is just awful in this area. Pastor Osman is much more thorough than I am in this.

Bonus too! This guy is a pastor! I treasure that because so many pastors seem to fall into the groupthink on this. So many people are making disastrous decisions with their lives and not following proper wisdom for following an unbiblical pattern of decision making.

It puzzles me even more when my fellow Protestants do this. Aren’t we the people who claim that we are people of the book? The Bible is our final authority? We only go with what the Bible teaches? Despite that, we have bought into an idea that is not even taught in the Bible and is our own form of extra-biblical revelation that is to each of us and has us playing a guessing game with the will of God.

It reminds me of what my ex-wife used to struggle with as she would have a dream and the next day be thinking about it all day. She would ask me “What do you think it means?” I always said the same thing to her. “Honey. If you spent as much time trying to understand what Scripture means, which you know comes from God, as you do trying to understand your dreams, which you don’t know come from God, how much better off you would be.”

What does Osman deal with? Still small voice? Yep. Feeling a peace about it? Yep. Being led by the Spirit? Yep. Open doors? Yep. My sheep hear my voice? Definitely. Every biblical distortion out there, he interacts with.

At the same time, there seems to be nothing personal against the people who hold to this methodology often. There is no doubting that many people who hold to this are sincere Christians and think they are doing good. However, sincerity is not enough.

The only section I really disagreed with him on was Muslim dreams. I am entirely open to Muslims having dreams that lead them to Jesus and the difference I think is that these are dreams that are JUST for that purpose. They are not meant to help the Muslim in day-to-day decision-making. Osman and I can debate that hypothetically, but we do agree on the general premise of day-to-day living.

Also, Osman is a cessationist, but that is not necessary for his position. I am not one. I think Craig Keener has presented tremendous evidence that miracles are taking place today. I am open to the possibility that God can speak today if need be, but it needs to be tested and checked and it won’t be something done subjectively. If God speaks, it will be clear. We won’t have to wonder if it’s Him speaking.

Please. Buy this book! Read it and learn it!

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Concluding Thoughts On Priscilla Shirer

Should you read Shirer? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

No.

Well, tune in next time for….

Oh. You want to hear more. Right?

The problem with people like Shirer is they have a horrible way of misinterpreting Scripture, which everyone agrees comes from God, and then asks us to trust their judgment on subjective experiences, which we don’t know come from God. This causes a focus on one’s self and makes your own life the center of the story. That should never be. Jesus is always the center of the story.

Right now, I am reading God Doesn’t Whisper on this topic. Today, I read this great quote from Jim Osman, the author:

They write entire books teaching us how to discern the meaning of a whispered impression but they cannot discern the clear meaning of a written text! They think they can discern the meaning of God’s whispers in signs, impressions, and inner promptings, but they cannot accurately discern the plain meaning of the inspired Word. If they cannot rightly interpret a passage as objectively clear and straightforward as John 10, why should we trust them to teach us how to interpret our vague, subjective, and unclear impressions?

Osman, Jim . God Doesn’t Whisper (pp. 67-68). Kootenai Community Church Publishing. Kindle Edition.

There is a lot of danger in this movement. Think especially of Christians who are suffering. I have spoken to a man trying to save a marriage who told me that he doesn’t feel God’s presence now. This is not uncommon when people are suffering.

If you read people like Shirer, you will think the problem is you. If you are suffering, the last thing you need is to think that God does not care about you in your suffering. That can lead you to even more despair.

Christian suffering. God loves you. He cannot not love you. He cannot change in His love for you. He cannot lessen in His love for you and He cannot grow in His love for you. You have the Scripture and you have the Spirit. He has promised He is there with you.

It is hard to realize that at times when you are suffering and your emotions are out of control. The good news is that your emotions cannot tell you anything about God. Nothing. It does not mean your emotions are useless, but they are meant to tell you something about what’s going on with you.

Writers like Shirer will move your focus away from Scripture and lean them to yourself. It is an awful system that has you looking at every event in your life and every emotion to try to find out what secret message God is telling you. Friends. God has not kept secrets important for your life from you. They are there in the Scripture.  Go back to that.

Personally, when I hear anyone tell me God is leading them to do X or anything of that sort, I disregard it. They need to establish it on other grounds. Those of us who are Protestants remember that the movement has been to the sources, the Scripture.

Abandoning that for subjective feelings and events will only lead to chaos. We go with what has stood the test of time. We go with Scripture.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 14

What do we expect? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

It’s the final chapter!

This chapter is all about expectations. Towards the start, Shirer tells us to be expecting and she has a Scripture for this.

But when we truly expect, He incredibly delivers. I will stand on my guard post and station myself
on the rampart; and I will keep watch to see
what He will speak to me.
Habakkuk 2:1

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 199). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But wait! There’s more!

Yep. Shirer left off the rest of the verse. Why would she do that? Maybe because the rest of it makes her look bad if she shows it.

I will stand on my guard post And station myself on the rampart; And I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me, And how I may reply when I am reproved.

That last part sure changes everything.

Habakkuk is a rare prophet in that most prophets spoke to the people on the behalf of God, but Habakkuk seems to spend more time speaking to God on behalf of the people. In these cases, he is actually complaining to God.

Either Shirer did not see that in the verse and is horrible at reading it.

Or she intentionally hid that part.

Unfortunately, she makes it worse:

Then into this revealing moment, with my heart and doubts and attitudes sufficiently exposed, God directed my Bible study into the slender opening of Scripture called the book of Habakkuk, where He used the descriptive message of this prophetic account to teach me an important lesson—a lesson I knew but didn’t really know until this occasion. With the promises of one simple yet profound verse, the Lord encouraged my pursuit of His word and affirmed His promise to give me counsel. For the vision is yet for the appointed time; it hastens toward the goal and it will not fail. Though it tarries, wait for it; for it will certainly come, it will not delay.
Habakkuk 2:3

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 200). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

See? Now it is not just Shirer exegeting the book. It is God doing it. Now God is telling her about what the passage means. This should be seen as a serious claim. If she says God is telling her this is what the passage means and she is wrong, by implication, God is wrong.

Do you not realize, Shirer, how seriously it is to claim God in this? If you are wrong, then you are wrong, but if you attribute it to God, then if you are not right, you have taken God’s name in vain.

Sadly, she has done just that.

God goes on to describe in verse 6-8 of this chapter what He is talking about:

“But soon their captives will taunt them.
They will mock them, saying,
‘What sorrow awaits you thieves!
Now you will get what you deserve!
You’ve become rich by extortion,
but how much longer can this go on?’
7 Suddenly, your debtors will take action.
They will turn on you and take all you have,
while you stand trembling and helpless.
8 Because you have plundered many nations,
now all the survivors will plunder you.
You committed murder throughout the countryside
and filled the towns with violence.

He is speaking about a specific prophecy that will take place at a specific time. He is not making a general comment about Shirer’s laugh. I keep coming back to thinking she must be someone incredibly egotistical to think all of this is about her.

First, new vision. Then, new confidence. The result: a second wind to wait with. I will stand on my guard post and station myself on the rampart; and I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me and how I may reply when I am reproved. (2:1)

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 206). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So why didn’t she quote the rest of this earlier? She knew about it. Is she waiting to be reproved? Well, I’m not going to claim God has told me to do it, but this is my reproof of Shirer.

I have regularly dealt with atheists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, and others that take Scripture out of context. I see much of the same in Shirer. I would not trust her at all with Scripture.

Tomorrow, I will give concluding thoughts overall.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 13

Are we being disobedient to the Lord? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer shows us the danger of her idea of hearing the voice of God early on. She does not think she is doing that, but she is. She talks about her friend Monica who seems to have things work out for her. What does Shirer say?

And while every account is unique, each one is woven together by a similar theme. A consistent thread. She and I have often talked about this—why some believers like her seem to experience God’s supernatural power more often than others, while many Christians can live their entire lives without really witnessing God’s handiwork. Her soft, humble answer is this: “I think the reason I see God’s activity so clearly in my life is because I’ve decided that the only appropriate response to Him is complete obedience. I am committed to obeying His leading, no matter how illogical His instructions may seem to be. From giving when I didn’t have enough, to making an effort when I was completely out of strength, I’ve just chosen to do what He says.” He speaks; she obeys.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 182). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Wonderful.

So are we to say that the person who loses a child to cancer is not living in complete obedience?

Are we to say Christians being martyred all over the world are not living in complete obedience?

Are we to say that a couple struggling with finances or infertility or anything else is not living in complete obedience?

It’s sad that Shirer has the exact same mindset as Job’s friends. See how well Monica’s life is turning out? She hears. She obeys. The implication is that if she disobeyed, her life would not turn out well. Shirer would likely never say that, but it is an easy conclusion to reach from her methodology.

Yet she goes on later on in the chapter to take this further.

God, who knows our hearts, doesn’t do much speaking into a person’s life who isn’t dedicated to obeying Him.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 183). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You don’t think you’re hearing the voice of God? Obviously then, you’re not obeying Him.

So if you’re crying out in pain and the heavens seem silent, you’re being disobedient.

I have had someone contact me before about marriage difficulties. Seeing as I have walked through divorce, I strive to help other men hopefully to save their marriages, but if not, then through divorce. This man told me about the heavens seeming silent. I told him he should not expect to hear the voice of God. We had some back-and-forth, but he did respect that I stuck by my guns.

Had I had Shirer’s mindset, I would have thought that my friend was being a disobedient Christian obviously. A guy who has a marriage falling apart does not need more guilt heaped upon him, but it is the outcome of what Shirer says. Not hearing from God? You’re the problem!

Not only that, the whole thing is just wrong. Paul was busy trying to destroy the church and God spoke to Him quite clearly. On the other hand, it was quite clear that God had spoken in the contest of Elijah at Mt. Carmel, and yet Jezebel still wanted to kill Elijah.

The Scripture makes clear, over and over again, that the prerequisite for experiencing God is obeying Him.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 185). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

I dread the thought of anyone going through a hard time in this book thinking they need to feel the love of God and life seems cold and reading this. Shirer is not a wise writer. She is heaping stones on people who are already suffering. Not only that, but again, it’s wrong.

For one thing, not all experience of God is good. You can experience judgment and you certainly aren’t obeying God then. Moses had the experience of hearing God describe Himself as “I am” when all he was doing was just being a shepherd. Meanwhile, Joseph was obedient to God and wound up being thrown in prison for two years.

Now Shirer tells us again about, surprise once more, herself! She talks about a time her son had a horrible cough that was keeping her and her husband at night and at 4 AM, she woke up to it and was under the impression she should go and personally pray for her son. Okay. I do not have a problem with praying for your son, but notice what she says here.

For ten minutes or more I debated with God on the wisdom of this strategy.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 185). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Whoa.

You think you are talking with God and you are debating with Him?

How arrogant must you be!

We can say Moses and Jeremiah offered pushback, which I think could have been Semitic humility, but Shirer goes beyond that. She is debating. It is hard to not see this as her thinking she is more wise than the one who is Wisdom. Besides, I thought obedience was necessary to experiencing God and hearing His voice. Here she is arguing with Him and still hearing His voice apparently.

Now she does say that after the prayer, the cough went away, but again, was that God? Maybe. I don’t know, but I do know there is not a guarantee, or else St. Jude’s would have a whole lot less sick children today.

On the other hand, believers who always have an escape plan—another option waiting in the wings, a plan B to revert to—are what the Scriptures call “double-minded” (James 1:8). And they can never expect to fully know and experience the power and presence of God. They can never experience the full disclosure of divine activity that is available to those who are all in. They shouldn’t even anticipate that they will “receive anything from the Lord” (verse 7), not the least of which is His continued direction and guidance. So if you aren’t hearing from God very clearly or regularly, ask the Lord to reveal whether or not any double-mindedness is the culprit—any sense of holding back, any initial resistance that blocks your full acceptance and obedience of His message to you.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 187). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

If Shirer was heaping stones on the reader before, now she is throwing them in the tomb and burying it. Sorry Shirer, but you should always have in mind what to do if a plan fails. Read Paul’s letters. In the end, he will often talk about what he wants to do, but he has other things in mind if they do not pan out.

Remember that story about how she argued for ten minutes with God about something? This is the same lady who in this same chapter says this:

We’ve talked before in this book about when it is appropriate to delay an upcoming action or decision until you’ve heard from the Lord. There’s much biblical wisdom and prudence in that perspective. But once you’ve heard from God, delay is no longer an option—only instant obedience is.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 188). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Ten minutes of arguing doesn’t sound like “instance obedience.” Maybe Shirer is an exception.

And yet on the very next page:

When the Lord gives me directives that I don’t particularly care for or I’m afraid to carry out, the last thing I want to do is get up “early in the morning” to do them. I procrastinate. I think about it. I pray about it. I talk to friends about it. And if I’m not doing any of those, I usually just try to ignore it.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 189). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

This doesn’t sound like instance obedience.

And in one final example from this chapter, she writes about continuing a pursuit of higher education at Dallas Theological Seminary.

But while I was driving to the seminary to hand in my application, the Holy Spirit spoke clearly to my heart. “I didn’t tell you I wanted you to go back to school,” He seemed to be saying. “You came up with this idea all on your own. I have other plans for you.” Whoa. Wasn’t expecting that. I mean, here I was, on my way to campus, my crisp packet of materials resting in the seat beside me, and now I was being met with an about-face directive from God that was so strong, I had no doubt He was speaking to me. Caught in the moment, I thought about just going ahead and dropping off the application anyway. After all, I’d come this far and could always call back later and request that they disregard it. Once the stuff was turned in, I’d go home, talk it over with Jerry, and if we came to this same, unexpected conclusion—even at this late date in the process—I’d call and cancel it. No problem. But if, on the other hand, we determined that I was mistaken in what I thought God was saying about changing course, then finishing my errand would save me another trip out here and I wouldn’t miss any deadlines.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (pp. 190-191). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So let me get this straight.

You have no doubt that God is speaking to you, but you think you need to go home and discuss it with your husband and see if you two reach the same conclusion. How does this work?

“Honey. I am absolutely sure God was speaking to me.”

“What did He say?”

“He does not want me to continue higher education.”

“Okay. I think we should discuss this message you are absolutely sure is from God and see if we agree.”

“Yes. No need to rush on this. We should make sure God is right before we proceed.”

Oh. Not only that, it looks like she has a back-up plan in this as well.

Rules for thee, but not for me.

This chapter does not tell me a lot about God.

It tells me a lot about Priscilla Shirer and none of it is good.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 12

Does God have a plan for your life? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I work at the Post Office at my seminary and many times, new students come in to get a Post Office box. I often ask them what they plan to study. Sometimes, they do not know. They just want to go “Where God leads them.” I instead ask them, “What do you want to do?”

This is a far better question to ask because the former tends to assume God has a plan for your life and actually, for everyone’s. God has a blueprint laid out and you need to follow it for optimal living. I would hope many of us would realize in a momentary reflection that if such a plan existed, we have already messed it up. Not only that, but by messing it up, we have messed up everyone else’s plan that involved us. If one person marries the wrong person, then exponentially going down, no one can marry the right person.

Yet do not count on Shirer to recognize this. She is still caught up in this idea that God has a plan for your life. She quotes John 7:17 in the NLT.

Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.

The NLT is a paraphrase, but even then, Shirer is doing massive eisegesis. The will of God Jesus is talking about is not an individual will for your life. A look at BibleHub shows several translations of this verse. The idea is that if people really want to do what God wants, they will recognize Jesus as being from God. This is a verse about Jesus. Shirer makes it a verse about us.

Shirer then goes on to talk about waiting on God to do things in His “perfect timing.”

But, boy, it hasn’t always seemed like God was operating with perfect timing in my own life. I’ve sulked and fumed more times than I can remember when I’ve needed clarity about a specific circumstance yet felt as though He wasn’t providing it.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (pp. 173-174). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

In reading this, I just see Shirer as a petulant child whining. It is quite a pathetic claim to read. Shirer. God does not owe you anything. Instead of whining, why not do what Scripture says and redeem the time and follow the path of wisdom?

She then quotes John 16:13 saying the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. First off, this was said to the apostles. Second, are we to think that this would mean the apostles would become omniscient? After all, would not all truth mean all truth? Of course not. Jesus has in mind that which is relevant to their high personal calling that Jesus Himself gave them.

The same does not apply to Shirer.

Let me reiterate: on the occasions when you are pressed for time and a decision has to be made “by noon tomorrow,” choose the option that, to the best of your knowledge, will give God the most glory and cause your relationship with Him to flourish.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 178). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Sigh.

So if God does not show up on your timetable, just do what you think based on what you know will give Him the most glory.

The problem is that should be what is said EVERY TIME!

Shirer misses it. She is so caught up in her ideology that she does not see what is going on. Would that she spent as much time cultivating wisdom, which Scripture tells us to do, as she does using an unscriptural methodology that Scripture nowhere tells us to do.

Oh. If you want to know what God’s will for your life is, it is really simple. It is to conform you to the likeness of Christ.

Do what you think will get you towards that goal.

Two more chapters to go!

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)