Deeper Waters

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Deeper Waters. I wish to thank everyone for praying for me this weekend and for my safe travels. Those who know where I was know that I had an awesome time and have decided to work harder on being the man I ought to be. I ask everyone continue to pray for me as I believe there is much that I need to work through.  For now, we are going to return to 1 Thessalonians and continue our study of the deity of Christ. Tonight, we’re going to go to a passage that the Jehovah’s Witnesses use to demonstrate that Jesus is Michael the archangel. We will be reading 1 Thess. 4:16.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Now I know some of you might have a hard time believing it, but I plan on discussing this verse without getting into eschatology. If you want to talk about when you think the rapture will occur, then you’ll have to go somewhere else. We are only looking at this passage insofar as it relates to who Jesus is.

I’ve not heard this one used often by Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I do want to bring it up as some do. Now I don’t think it’s heretical to believe Jesus is Michael. Some Christians have been open to that. It’s my understanding that even John Calvin held to that.

Of course, if one holds to this, this is okay provided that they do not deny who Jesus is in his deity. I personally do not believe that Jesus is Michael, but I am not going to think someone is cut off from the body if they think that because  a number of strong Christians throughout history have thought that.

Now how do the Witnesses use this verse? They will look at it and say that if Jesus is returning with the voice of the archangel, then it is obvious that he is the archangel Michael. When I heard this in a class at our church, I raised my hand and made a point and only found out that I had jumped the gun. Now my answer didn’t come straight from me to be fair, but it was in the memory, which I say to remind you that few of us will come up with original answers and we should all be willing to learn from those who have gone before us.

The question to ask is “Then doesn’t having the trump of God make him God by the same standard?” The Witnesses seem to routinely interpret part of a verse how they want and then ignore the other part and refuse to interpret it the other way since that will go against their doctrine.

Now does this passage prove the deity of Christ? No. I’m not saying it does. Part of what we need to do however is not just present the positive side but give the answers to the negative side. Remember all in apologetics that it is important to do both. Build a positive case and be ready to answer criticisms. On the flip side, if you can destroy they the case against the deity of Christ but not make one for, you’ve only done half the job. We as Christians must always be prepared to do both.

Welcome everyone to Deeper Waters. A word before I forget in doing tonight’s blog. I will be out of town this weekend so after tonight, there will not likely be another blog until Monday.  I ask my readers for their prayers this weekend. It will be a big one and I want it to be a really good one as well. I’ve spent some time learning about myself in preparation for this weekend and I pray I’m the man I am supposed to be.

Tonight, we’re going to start our look at 1 Thessalonians, which is accepted to be a genuine Pauline letter. We’re going to be in the first chapter and looking at verses 4-10. Let’s go to the text:

⁴For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, ⁵because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. ⁶You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. ⁷And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia. ⁸The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, ⁹for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, ¹⁰and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

I chose this passage because it is thoroughly Trinitarian. All throughout this passage, we have references to God, to Jesus, and to the Holy Spirit. Some items worthy of mention include the imitation of the Lord, a reference to Christ of course as only Christ walked the earthly life, but this common reference to him as the Lord is what is noteworthy. We already see at work this usage of Lord in reference to Jesus and God to the Father, as if there needed to be an explanation already.

Note also the message given by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who inspires the gospel and it is his message that is being conveyed in the preaching of the gospel. This would lean towards a high view of the Spirit which has already been seen as the one who empowers even the very delivery of the message in verse 5.

Note also that Jesus is identified as the Son of God at the very end as the one who delivers from the wrath to come. Now I’m not going to enter into an eschatological debate, but what the wrath is is clearly a divine judgment in some sense and Jesus is seen as the one who delivers us.

There is also the reference to the living and true God. What does this mean for Trinitarianism? Not a problem for sure. As a Trinitarian, I can speak of any one person of the Trinity as being in the true and living God. The only problem would be if the assumption of unipersonalism was in play. Since it is not, I do not have a problem.

There is much in here and I urge readers to look over this passage. If you’re one who marks in your Bible, you could consider three different colors of highlighers and going through and using a different color to reference a different person of the Trinity. This might be an interesting exercise to do with the whole of Scripture.

Okay! Pray for me this weekend! See you all Monday!

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Trinitarian Commentary here at Deeper Waters. We are in the Pauline epistles now and tonight, we’re going to finish up Colossians. We’ll be in the fourth chapter and we’re looking at the third verse. This isn’t about the deity of Christ per se, but it brings  it all together. We will simply quote the verse and give a synopsis of what this book has said about the person of Jesus Christ. Having said that, let’s go to the text:

³And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains

How have we come through this book? We began looking at Jesus in his role in relation to creation. (I always feel so odd saying “relation to creation.”) We saw that Jesus has the supremacy in everything. We also saw the problem with saying that Jesus is created in that it makes one fall right into the heresy that Paul is writing this letter against.

Because of that, we saw the problem with the Jehovah’s Witnesses teaching and that ironically, this passage supports the idea of Jesus as the center of all. We saw that all things in existence (Other than God of course) depend on Jesus for their existence. He is the sustainer of all that is.

The next day, we saw that Jesus is the focal point of the world in that he is the one through whom God has revealed himself. We saw that all knowledge lies in Jesus and that this must be a monotheistic belief system as well so that no other lesser gods could be allowed, another blow to the heresy Paul was disputing with and a counter to the Witnesses.

We also saw that Paul is not against philosophy in what he said and I encouraged you dear readers to read the philosophers. I believe every Christian should be familiar with the great philosophical thought that has taken place throughout the ages.

We finally saw that Christ breaks apart political and social barriers as well. We saw that all class distinctions fall apart in him and all racial distinctions. This means for us that all are invited to approach him equally and he will receive all who come.

What do we get from all of this looking at what Paul says in this letter. We get a very dynamic picture of who Christ is. Now I will grant that many scholars do not see this as an authentic Pauline letter. If it is however, it is one of the most amazing letters with a high Christology at a very early time.

I will also say what some have asked me about this study. This has been a blessing to me as well. I have been learning just as much going through here and now see after this study how much depth is in this letter on the person of Christ that I never noticed before and look forward to the next time I can discuss it with a JW.

Tomorrow, we shall begin 1 Corinthians.

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Deeper Waters as we continue our Trinitarian Bible Commentary. We’ve been going through the book of Colossians looking at one chapter a night and tonight, we’re going to be in the third chapter. Our focus verse tonight will be verse 11. However, I am going to start my quote at verse 5 so all can see the context of the passage:

⁵Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. ⁶Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. ⁷You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. ⁸But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. ⁹Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices ¹⁰and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. ¹¹Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Paul is talking about righteous living and as usual, this is going to be connected to Christ. This should remind us that for the early church, holiness mattered a great deal. The basis for all righteous living in each case was the new revelation of Christ. Because of him, all were called to live holy lives and all were capable through him of living holy lives.

Christ is also the one that shatters apart the boundaries. Consider the types of people Paul lists. We might look at that list and not see the big deal. Let us consider some modern ties that might help make it clear.

What if we were talking about someone of Jewish descent and someone converted from Islam who had both become Christians in the Middle East?

What if we were talking about a black man and a white man in South Africa who were both Christians?

What if we were talking about a Protestant and a Catholic in Northern Ireland who were both Christians?

That’s getting the idea. The ethnic identity of someone made a big deal back then and Paul is taking that which most people took pride in and saying  “As far as it pertains to being in Christ, that counts for absolutely nothing.” Because you are in Christ, you are no longer to use race as an excuse to not acknowledge your fellow human being who is in Christ.

Christ is said to be all and in all. In other words, everything depends on Christ, which is a carry-over from Colossians 1 as this whole letter is about the supremacy of Christ, hardly a fitting letter to talk about Christ being a lesser god. This is also not pantheism. Christ is all in that he is supreme and Christ is in all in that by his very existence, he holds all other existence together. Nothing could exist if it were not for the existence of Christ.

Because of that, all life you see is that which is somehow touched by Christ, even if it refuses to acknowledge him. Christ overshadows all of life and this is his world. This is a lesson we as Christians should take to heart and reminds us of the importance Trinitarianism has on practical living. Because of who Christ is, we are to live differently

Are we living as Trinitarians today?

Welcome everyone to the Deeper Waters blog. For the past few months, we’ve been going through a Trinitarian Bible Study. That is, we’ve been going through the Bible and trying to understand the wonderful doctrine of the Trinity. We are in the Pauline epistles now and in the book of Colossians. Tonight, we’re going to be studying verse 9 of chapter 2, but to get the surrounding context we’ll be looking at 8-10. Let’s go to the text:

⁸See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

⁹For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, ¹⁰and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

To begin with, we are told to stay away from deceptive philosophy. Paul is not speaking about philosophy in general. I would even argue Paul was quite the philosopher himself and had read many of the philosophers, as is shown in his ability to debate and speak on Mars Hill in Acts 17.

In fact, all Christians should have some understanding of philosophy. I would that every Christian knew the basic thought at least of many of the great philosophers, particularly Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Augustine, and Aquinas.

The vain philosophies I believe are the false teachings that were going around, some of which we discussed yesterday in our look at the firstborn passage. These involved a sort of pantheon of lesser gods and the attempt to gain secret knowledge, which would blossom into full Gnosticism.

All of these are inadequate because of who Jesus is. Paul isn’t writing a letter and then suddenly deciding “You know, I think I should just drop in here something about the deity of Christ.” The deity of Christ is central to his argument. It is also important that it is a monotheistic system.

There is no pantheon of gods for Paul. You do not get just part of the deity in Jesus, as if such a thing were possible. Jesus is not just one of many. Jesus is not just one who represents one side of a supreme being. The fullness of deity dwells in the person of Jesus Christ.

In saying this, Paul is indeed giving an argument for the full deity of Jesus Christ in connection with the one God who exists. He is stating that this one God who exists has revealed himself in Christ and Christ is not lacking in being fully deity, that is, in having the nature of the one God. To make this anything less is to actually make the case for the opponents that Paul is arguing against.

What’s the end result? We aren’t captive by vain philosophies because all knowledge lies in Christ and we are in him. We are in the one who claimed to be the truth and there can be no knowledge of reality that contradicts the revelation that has been given in Christ.

For Paul, the deity of Jesus is not peripheral. It is essential.

Hello everyone and welcome back to Deeper Waters. It seems hard to believe that we’re in another book of the Bible. When I began this Trinitarian commentary, I had no idea it would last this long but lo and behold, it has. We are continuing our walk through the Pauline epistles and tonight, we start the book of Colossians. Right off the top, we’re going to deal with one of the Jehovah’s Witnesses favorite prooftexts against the Trinity, Colossians 1:15-20.

¹⁵He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. ¹⁶For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. ¹⁷He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. ¹⁸And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. ¹⁹For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, ²⁰and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Firstborn! See?! Jesus is firstborn! That means that he’s created!

Not quite. First off, note that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. We as humans are made in the image, but Jesus is the image. As long as God has been, his image has been as well. An image is not a copy after all.

The firstborn passage does not refer to a chronological firstborn. One indication of this is in the Watchtower’s own New World Translation. In this passage, they add the word “other” four times. There is no basis for doing such except to support their dogma. One would think that if the New Testament clearly did not teach the deity of Christ, it would not need to be changed so much.

Firstborn instead refers to a place of pre-eminence. We can see this also because of Jesus being the firstborn from among the dead. He was certainly not the first one to come back from the dead, but he is the most eminent one as his resurrection is the basis for the resurrection of the rest of us.

This whole passage places Jesus in a supreme position above all things. This is the point of verses 16-17. James White gives an interesting look at this in his book “The Forgotten Trinity” stating that a proto-Gnostic heresy was going around that was believing in multiple lesser gods called aeons. Now the Gnostics were happy to accept Jesus as a being worthy of worship. He’s just an aeon however, a lesser god.

Paul will have none of that. Jesus is supreme. He is the one to whom honor and worship are owed, which is fitting since this passage could very well be yet another Christian hymn.

Note also that verse 17 says that in him all things hold together. What I like to ask JWs is that if this is true, and if Jesus ceased to exist on the cross when he died, how did all things hold together? Jesus is seen as the basis for all reality. How can he be anything less than God if all things are held together in him?

For further on this, many books can give you insights into the Greek of the text. As one who does not know Greek, I make it a point not to speak on that level, but I encourage it for all who are interested.

My conclusion is that the Witnesses have no basis in using this verse. The context as a whole speaks of the full deity of Jesus and to misunderstand one word and base the whole argument on that is entirely fallacious.

We shall continue this study of Colossians tomorrow.

Welcome back everyone to Deeper Waters. Another comment was posted in reply to my review of Loftus’s argument on Natural Evil and I wanted to say I really appreciated that one. I’m not sure of the identity of the one who made the comment, but I do appreciate it. However, we are going to continue our study now on the Trinity in the book of Philippians. The passage I am going to use tonight is the one I wrote a paper for on my Hermeneutics class. Now while I read the commentaries on this passage, I didn’t see anyone making the reference I was. Thus, I again present this as speculation, but I think there could be something to it of course or else I wouldn’t be saying it. The passage will be Philippians 4:4-9:

⁴Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! ⁵Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. ⁶Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. ⁷And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

⁸Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. ⁹Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

I wrote on this passage due to the way it deals with the problem of anxiety we so often have. I am one who would be far better off in this world if I could follow my own advice. Tonight will not be about dealing with anxiety per se, but I hope the idea I have on this passage will help with that.

When we look at the start of the fourth chapter, we find that there are a couple of members having an argument in the church. This is something to keep in mind. Be careful of how you’re behaving. After all, imagine that what we know first about these people for all history is that they just couldn’t get along in church.

However, the goal of this is to get the peace of God from the God of peace. Have we considered what it means for him to be the God of peace however? What peace is lacking in this area in the church is the peace of good fellowship between the persons.

What if we put a Trinitarian idea in there? The God of peace is the one who has perfect fellowship in himself which is possible with a God who is triune. The peace that we as Christians are supposed to have is the peace that exists amongst the persons of the Trinity. Many of our problems come from not understanding how our fellow man sees something and maybe we should just stop and look and say “Maybe I should see where he is coming from.” Of course, I also believe that this peace is to be between believers. I don’t think there can be peace between light and darkness, good and evil, God and satan, etc.

My contention is that this peace makes the most sense with the doctrine of the Trinity. The peace that is to exist between the members of the body is to be that peace which is found in the very nature of the Trinity.

Tomorrow, we shall begin looking at Colossians.

Welcome back to Deeper Waters for our continuing Trinitarian commentary. It’s been our goal here to go through the Bible and see what we could find on the doctrine of the Trinity, and we are finding a lot of it! Right now, we’re in the book of Philippians and tonight, we’re going to look at the third chapter with verses 7-11:

⁷But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. ⁸What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ ⁹and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. ¹⁰I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, ¹¹and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Paul has just got done listing his credentials in Judaism and showing that he disregards all of them. Everything is nothing compared to Christ. It is amazing how much he speaks of Christ in these verses. There is not mention of God in here except once. The center of Paul’s devotion has been Christ through whom he worships God. God is not removed entirely of course, but Christ is seen as the revelation of God through whom God is known.

He even considers everything else rubbish, which is where we get the title for tonight’s blog. The Greek word is skubalon. This is the only place in the NT that this word shows up and it is an extremely strong word. I have spoken to some people that even think you could insert an expletive for the word. Paul is wanting to use the strongest language he can to illustrate how worthless everything else is before Christ. (Add in the fun that when something goes wrong you can shout “Skubalon!” and hardly anyone has a clue what you’re saying.

Christ is also seen as the one through whom righteousness comes for Paul. In the Old Testament, righteousness came from YHWH and he was the righteous one. In the New Testament, we see this in Christ. Christ is so united with the Father that one cannot get righteousness apart from him. There is no righteousness of God that ultimately does not come through Christ.

What does Paul want to know? Paul wants to know Christ. He wants to know the power of the resurrection. He also wants to know the fellowship of his sufferings. These are strong words for an age where Word of Faith teachers emphasize physical healing as a sign of the favor of God. We don’t like to hear the message of suffering in America, but it is a reality. Paul knows that apart from this, he has no hope of resurrection to the new life.

Why does Paul think like this? Because he sees Christ as he is, fully God and fully man. Do we?

Hello everyone and welcome back to Deeper Waters where we constantly seek to dive into the ocean of truth. We have for some time now been going through a sort of Trinitarian Commentary on the Scriptures. As I’ve said before, we are diving, but do not think we have fully explored the depths of the passages we are studying. I hope this is a call to get others to explore on their own the wonder of the ocean of truth. Tonight, we shall be finishing up the Philippians 2 hymn by looking at verse 11. Let’s go to the text:

¹¹and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
      to the glory of God the Father.

Again, this passage started out with a focus on Jesus and the shame that he endured in that he was to be our example. Paul is not wanting to leave us at just suffering and humbling ourselves. He wants us to see what the results are when we esteem others as better than ourselves. For that purpose, he tells us about what God does for Jesus in response.

We saw that every knee would bow at the name of Jesus yesterday. Today, we see that every tongue will confess. Again, we go back to the Scripture in Isaiah 45 and we’ll read verses 22-24.

 

 ²² “Turn to me and be saved,
       all you ends of the earth;
       for I am God, and there is no other.

 ²³ By myself I have sworn,
       my mouth has uttered in all integrity
       a word that will not be revoked:
       Before me every knee will bow;
       by me every tongue will swear.

 ²⁴ They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone
       are righteousness and strength.’ ”
       All who have raged against him
       will come to him and be put to shame.

 This is the full passage and it is a passage that is devoted in the book of Isaiah to God alone as Isaiah 40-48 is all about the monotheistic faith of Israel and how YHWH is the only true God as he challenges all the other gods to prove themselves before him.

His challenge goes so far however as to say that not only are there no other gods, but anyone who makes that claim will come and bow down before him and confess to him who he really is. What’s amazing for our purposes is that this is exactly what is to be said of Christ in the end. Everyone will come before him and acknowledge him for who he is. They will say that he is Lord, which is a term loaded with deity.

Why? For the glory of God the Father. Notice again that this juxtaposition is taking place. The title God is further explained by “the Father” so as to not confuse him with the Son, who has been proclaimed to be Lord. When we acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, then we honor the Father for the Son is the one through whom the Father’s reign exists.

Thus, throughout this hymn, we have the supreme example in Christ in that he had the highest position of all and lowered himself to the lowest position of all. In response to this, God the Father honored him again with the highest position of all. It is a wonder that someone could read this chapter and not see the deity of the Son.

May you not be one of them and may you follow the example he gave.

Hello readers to Deeper Waters, hopefully a blog you frequent in your quest for Christian truth. Tonight, we’re going to be continuing our Trinitarian commentary in the book of Philippians. Right now, we’re in the masterful hymn in the second chapter of that book and we’re going to be looking at verse 10. Let’s go to the text.

¹⁰that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Again, the first part of this passage spoke of what the Son did in obedience to the Father. The second part now takes the shame that the Son went through as he took on the lowliest position of all and how the Father honored that by giving him the highest position of all. It was the position he could rightly claim by nature, but that he did not grasp onto as an excuse to avoid going to the cross. God gave him what was rightfully his as a result of the obedience he fulfilled.

Does the language bear any resemblance to an Old Testament passage? Definitely. Consider this from Isaiah 45:22-23.

²² “Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.

²³ By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.

The language is identical and the speaker is no doubt God. Yet in this case, we are told that every knee will bow at the name of Jesus, which would refer to his person. This is the same God who said he would not share his glory with another yet in Philippians 2, we find that Jesus is receiving the worship that was to be given God alone.

The bending of the knee was a position of subservience. Those who came were those who would finally kneel before Jesus as inferiors recognizing that their superiors were before them. This would be the ultimate juxtaposition in that the one who came as a servant ended up being the Lord of all the universe. There could hardly be any greater contrast.

The recognition of who Jesus is goes to all places and all peoples as well. Everyone in Heaven will bow down before Jesus. All of the angels will acknowledge him and kneel (hypothetically seeing as they’re non-physical of course) before him as their master. Jesus is the Lord of the angels.

Everyone on Earth will bow before him. Whenever Jesus returns, anyone who is on the Earth, which would mean those who have not yet tasted death, will kneel before him as well and acknowledge him rightly as their king.

Finally, this even extends to the realm of the dead. The Bible does speak of the conscious existence of those who are dead and all of them will come out and kneel before the throne of Jesus. The conclusion that comes from all of this? Jesus is Lord of all.

I don’t know about you, but it sounds like deity to me.