Deeper Waters

Hello everyone. Welcome back to another Deeper Waters blog. As regular readers know, we’ve been going through the Bible trying to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. Right now, we’re in the New Testament and more specifically, we’re in the gospel of John. We’ve been in this one for quite awhile, but it is certainly one quite deep with Trinitarian thought. Today, we’re going to be looking at John 8:19-20.

¹⁹Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

   “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” ²⁰He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

Jesus has just been speaking about his Father who testifies about him on his behalf. The Jews immediately want to know where this Father is. (Interesting that they don’t ask who he is. Apparently, they must have thought him someone human that they could bring out and try with questions.) 

Jesus instead tells them that they don’t know the Father. Naturally, if they had known who they were asking for, they wouldn’t have had to ask where he was. However, while saying that they do not know the Father, Jesus makes it just as clear that they do not know him either.

Had they known who Jesus was, they would have known who the Father is. The conclusion is that if one does not know Jesus, they do not know who the Father is. Consider it if we put it in the form of a syllogism.

If p, q.

p, therefore q.

If you know the Son, you know the Father.

You know the Son, therefore you know the Father.

Jesus ties himself in again in such a unique way to the Father. This is something that would not be well accepted in our age of pluralism. Contrary to the Oprah Winfreys of our age, Jesus is the means whereby one knows the Father. He is not a means. He is the means.

Now someone might ask if Christianity is an exclusivistic religion. On the contrary, Christianity is the most inclusive religion of all! The ones who may come are whosoever will. Christ simply asks that you come on his terms. All who come are welcomed. Christianity, like all other religions, has core tenets at the heart of it. To deny those is to deny Christianity. You cannot be a Muslim and believe Muhammad was not a prophet. You cannot be a Christian and deny that Jesus is fully God. (I say deny for I realize many come to faith at a young age not reciting Trinitarian terminology, but I believe they can later come to realize just who this Jesus is. It is the denial of it that is a problem.)

Jesus is also speaking in the most populated area of the temple where there would be the most people and no one lays a hand on him. The reason is not because Jesus was good at dodging captors or that they were particularly bad at capturing him. It is another theme we see in the gospel. His time has not yet come. Throughout this gospel, it is God who is in charge of all that is going on. Christ will die, but it will not be because God has let him down or he was caught off guard. It will be because he is fulfilling the plan of God and unknowingly, his opponents are helping him to do that.

We shall continue tomorrow.

Hello everyone. Before we continue our blog tonight, I’d like to recommend my readers go to the “Unbelievable” radio program out of the U.K. with Justin Brierly. A special treat is in store as Saturady, May 2nd, J.P. Holding debated Ken Humphreys on the question of if Jesus existed. Holding is a good friend of mine and he did an excellent job on this debate and I invite everyone to go and listen to it. The link to the program is here:http://www.premierradio.org.uk/shows/saturday/unbelievable.aspx 

You can also listen to other past broadcasts there by going through the archives.

Now it’s time for us to return to the doctrine of the Trinity. One interesting aspect of today’s blog is that it’s going to deal with modalism as this is one of my favorite passages to use when I am dealing with that heresy. Open up your Bibles or go to a website with the Bible or use your Bible software and take a look at John 8:13-18.

 ¹³The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

 ¹⁴Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. ¹⁵You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. ¹⁶But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. ¹⁷In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. ¹⁸I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

Before looking at the Trinitarian issues. We have to answer a supposed contradiction. In John 8:14, Jesus says his testimony about himself is valid, but in John 5:31, what does he say?

³¹“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

Which is it?

It depends on what context you’re looking at. In John 5, Jesus is talking to the Jews and he is speaking about legal testimony in the law. Jesus certainly knew that according to the law, a man could not testify on his own behalf. That didn’t mean what he said about himself was true, but rather that it would not be accepted in a court of law.

In John 8, Jesus is speaking about a claim he has made stating that he is the light of the world. The Pharisees have immediately said that can’t be true because he is testifying about himself. Jesus states that his testimony is true because it does tell about who he is and that his Father testifies on his behalf. 

Jesus’s testimony is true because he knows where he comes from and where he’s going. He knows who sent him and where that journey leads. The Pharisees are making a human judgment. Jesus surprisingly says he passes judgment on no one. How come?

We know that he judges, but the judgment is not human judgment. He does not judge in the way that they do which is faulty. He judges by divine means. He judges based on his unique relationship with his Father and thus, his judgment is true.

So what about modalism?

Jesus tells us in this passage that the testimony of two men is valid. He counts himself as one. He counts his father as another. Were it the case that Jesus and the Father were one person, this would not meet the criteria of two witnesses. The only way that can happen is if there truly are two different persons being spoken of.

And if there are two different persons, there cannot be modalism.

Thus, in this passage, we see Jesus expressing who he is and distinguishing himself from the Father, both essential for Trinitarianism.

We shall continue more on this tomorrow.

 

Hello everyone. We’re back again to continue our study on the Trinity. Over here, we had the Jehovah’s Witnesses come back again and got to discuss with them on the nature of Jesus further and I believe they are being quite stunned by the things we are bringing out. Pray for my roommate and I that we will be given wisdom to guide them out of the Watchtower and pray for them that the scales may be removed from their eyes and they will come to a knowledge of who Christ truly is and have forgiveness in him.

One point we brought out to the JWs is that when a feast was going on or when Jesus passed a temple or saw any event, he found a way to point to himself as a true fulfillment. Such is the case tonight for tonight, it is quite likely that the passage under discussion was when the Feast of Tabernacles was going on. It’s John 8:12. Let’s look at the text.

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

There were two big aspects to the Feast of Tabernacles. One was water and the other was light. There was a candleabra that was lit during this feast and it would have been a reminder to the people. It was also lit in the Court of Women, which was the most populated part of the temple seeing as more people had access to it. 

Light was a perpetual theme in the Old Testament. The Lord was seen as a light. His Word was a light. The people living in darkness have seen a great light. There will be a light unto the Gentiles. For the Hebrews, light played an important role.

But didn’t Christ say to his followers that they are the light of the world? Indeed he did. However, we are definitely not lights in the sense that he is. He is light by nature. Jesus in giving the sermon was telling people how they were supposed to live. What sense does it make to tell that which is light by nature that it ought to shine? Jesus tells us who we are to be and tells us to go out and live accordingly with that.

John’s gospel has already described Jesus as light in the prologue. Jesus is the light that lights every man that comes into the world. Jesus is the one that is standing against the darkness in the world. The darkness cannot comprehend him and as we should realize, the darkness seeks to put out the light. If it cannot bring that which is light down to its level, it will do what it can to extinguish it altogether.

Let’s not overlook Jesus’s unique claim here as well. It is an “I AM” statement and it is certainly emphatic. One point we made with the JWs was that Jesus is seen as humble, but if I was to stand before an audience at a church and say “I am the light of the world” they would think me insane, a blasphemer, or an idiot.

Yet we don’t seem to think those with Jesus. If we do not think of him as Lord, then we should think of him as one of the above or some combination. If not, we are not taking his words seriously.

What’s your stance on him then? Are you going to accept him as the Light of the World? If so, be prepared to walk in that light, but keep in mind the purpose of light is to shine in the darkness. Are you ready to do that?

Hello all. I’d like to thank Pastor Fred for his comments here last night and I hope he does let his light shine and I hope I do the same also. Some of you might be surprised by my saying I hope I do the same, but I think in ministry, we need to be watching ourselves and doing what we can to make manifest the love and truth of God. 

Before I get to the blog, I also ask prayer for my mother. She had a dear friend being driven back from an operation by her husband when he said he felt dizzy and needed to pull over. The next thing he knew, he woke up in the hospital, the car had rolled over, and his wife had died instantly. My mother is taking it hard. I ask prayer for this husband also as I’m sure he’ll be feeling a lot of guilt.

Tonight, we continue our look at the Trinity. We’re going to be in the gospel of John still and looking in chapter 7 at verses 37-39:

³⁷On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. ³⁸Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” ³⁹By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

It’s the last day and again, we have Jesus crying out. It’s the same emphatic tone that we’ve seen already in this passage. Not only that, he’s standing. Usually, teachers sat when they taught. Jesus stands and is most likely addressing everyone at the feast about streams of water flowing from them.

The people had been drinking water all week from the pool of Siloam. Jesus is taking this imagery and saying that if anyone believes in him, as the Scripture says, streams of living water will flow from him. We have two questions at this point. 

First off, where does the Scripture say this? Most likely, this just like the reference to the prophets in Matthew 2, is a reference to Scripture in general and not a specific verse. If you take the Scriptures as a whole and the message the prophets were wishing to convey, you will find the concept Jesus is speaking of.

Second, how could the streams flow from the believer? It’s important to realize that Jesus in saying that does not mean that we are the source of the living water. Instead, he is treating us as if we are conduits through which this living water will flow. 

Jesus has spoken of living water already to the woman at the well so we can see the principle at work. She became the messenger to everyone else and this should be something startling to us. If we believe in Christ, we can be the ones through which his message of life flows to others.

And let’s not overlook Christ’s understanding of himself. This is a high view he has in speaking at the Jewish feast and saying that his message is the message that that feast represented. Is it any wonder the guards came to arrest him?

Hello everyone. It’s a late evening here. Faithful readers of the blog can easily guess why. That’s right. It was a Smallville night and we had a really great episode tonight with some great biblical imagery and the whole thing really raises a whole lot of questions. Questions mainly on moral systems. That is for another night though. 

I wish to thank Donald for his comment and let me state clearly also that I am not against anyone else doing further research. My blog is not supposed to be the end-all. I simply intend it to be something that gets people more informed and started on their own journeys. If you find something great that you think needs to be shared, feel free to share it here in the comments. Also, feel free to start your own blog. The world can be blessed by Christians blogging and I recommend the book that got me started on the journey. Hugh Hewitt’s book “Blog.”

For those who are just joining us, we’re going through the Bible wanting to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. Tonight, we’re in the gospel of John. As the title indicates, we’re in John 7:33-36. Let’s look at the verses:

³³Jesus said, “I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. ³⁴You will look for me, but you will not find me; and where I am, you cannot come.”

 ³⁵The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? ³⁶What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?”

Jesus’s words follow on the order of the leaders to have him arrested. Thus, he starts speaking about his death which will lead to his resurrection and ascension and that he is going back to the Father. He does not meantion the Father here, but he has said earlier that the Father sent him. He also tells them that where he goes, they will not be able to find him. 

Some of the Jews thought of the Jews in the diaspora. When Babylon conquered Judah, the Jews were dispersed and many taken to Babylon. By the time of Christ, there were Jewish populations all throughout the Roman Empire. Alexandria was one of the noted cities with a heavy Jewish population. Yet Christ could not have meant that for any Jew could have traveled to a city in the empire and found Christ.

We know that he meant his Father. Why could they not find him? Because they were not of his flock. They did not know him and thus could not know the Father. It isn’t the loss of Jesus when people do not come to him. It is their loss. When the Jews try to destroy Jesus, they are only destroying their own hope. In killing him, people ultimately kill themselves.

Recently a saw a sign someone was carrying somewhere that said “If Jesus returns, kill him again.” Completely blasphemous, but such a person is being foolish and killing their own hope. They show the way the culture reacts to Jesus. In an odd way, it’s a rational one. Jesus has spoken of himself as the light that those in darkness do not come to lest their deeds be exposed.

You either accept the light or you dispose of it somehow.

Which are you going to do?

First off, I would like to thank Mikael for his comment on last night’s post. It has been said that to like what you do and know that it matters must be a source of great enjoyment. I simply love getting to speak about these matters and have people come and indicate to me that they get it. This is a most important topic also.

For those just joining us, we are going through the Bible and we’re in the New Testament now and the gospel of John. We are looking for understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity and looking at the way Jesus saw himself and the way those around him saw him. Tonight, we’re going to be in John 7:25-29. Let’s go to the text.

²⁵At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask, “Isn’t this the man they are trying to kill? ²⁶Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him. Have the authorities really concluded that he is the Christ? ²⁷But we know where this man is from; when the Christ comes, no one will know where he is from.” ²⁸Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him, ²⁹but I know him because I am from him and he sent me.”

Already, there had been a plan set forth to kill Jesus. The leaders in power saw him as a threat and he could have been seen that way for a number of reasons. First off, there was the fear that people would want to make him a king and go off then and try to conquer Rome. While the Jews did not care for Rome, they also knew that they could not defeat it. But couldn’t Jesus do that if he was the Messiah? Why yes he could. But we saw back in John 5 that since Jesus healed a paralytic and told him to take up his mat and walk on the Sabbath, that since he instructed a man to “break the Sabbath”, then he could not be the Messiah.

The leaders would also want to protect themselves from the wrath of YHWH. Since this guy was such a lawbreaker, he would bring defilement to their land. YHWH had punished them in the past for following false prophets. They would not be punished again!

And of course, the usual reason of politics. They had their own power base to protect.

Yet the Jews in the audience have a struggle. They knew where he came from. When the Messiah comes, no one will know where he comes from. There are a number of points that need to be considered with this.

First, they saw Jesus as coming from Galilee, when he was really born in Bethlehem. Of course, the scribes of Herod in Matthew 2 knew the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. It could be that the Jews weren’t familiar with this passage, which I’m skeptical of, or they interpreted it differently, which is more likely, or even more so, they had the idea of when the Messiah comes AS Messiah, it wold be a sudden appearance by him.

Next, Jesus cries out and the word is quite emphatic to describe the action. This is an important point. Where Jesus is from is not just Bethlehem or even Galilee. It is from the Father. His identity is tied up with the Father and Jesus makes the remarkable claim that the Jews don’t know the Father. 

Christ also says he was sent by the Father pointing to his pre-existence. He both comes from the Father and is sent by the Father. He comes from the Father who is true. Therefore, Christ is true in what he says.

Tomorrow, we shall look at more of this discourse.

Hello everyone. I wish to thank Donald first off for the compliment to last night’s blog. I am an enjoyer of compliments and I believe that we not only don’t give them enough but we don’t thank people enough when they are given. The church is to be a group that encourages one another and this is one way we do that. For tonight, we are continuing the gospel of John and we will be looking at John 7:16-18 tonight. As usual, our goal is to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

¹⁶Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. ¹⁷If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. ¹⁸He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 

Jesus says his teaching is not his own. It comes from the one who sent him. Isn’t this a strong argument against the Trinity?

Again, I must ask “How?”

A large part of our problem when we dialogue with some people is that we assume some things are problems when they really aren’t. They may be things that we don’t fully understand, but that is not the same as saying that they’re a problem for our worldview. 

If someone wants to assert that something is a problem, I would suggest looking at it from another point of view, and namely the opposite one. Let’s suppose that Christ had really said this:

“My teaching is entirely my own. It has nothing to do with the God who sent me.”

Not only would Trinitarianism have a problem, any idea that Jesus was a sinless person would have a problem as well as he is teaching something that does not come from God. As it is, Jesus at this point is saying that what he has is not something that he has made up. It is true because it came from God. Jesus is described in the Bible as a prophet also, and he is the prophet par excellence, and in being such, he would certainly give a message that was from God.

Jesus’s way to test it was to have people live it out. Jesus’s advice though is not true because it works. It works because it’s true. His teaching was the true fulfillment of the Law. Christ did not teach against it but rather he was its greatest teacher in that as he taught, he was showing people the real intent of the Law and how it was that God desired that they live.

Jesus then points out that if someone speaks on their own to gain honor, how can he be trusted? He could be making something up just to win favor for himself. (Keep in mind honor was huge in the ancient world. It mattered more than life itself.) However, if one came for the honor of another, he could be more easily trusted as it would cause shame for him from his audience and his patron both if he did not give a true message from the one who sent him. Jesus is saying that since he seeks the honor for the Father and not for himself, then that increases his credibility. 

As we go through this chapter, we will see more of Jesus’s teachings and come to a greater understanding of them.

Hello everyone. I hope you enjoyed the back-up article I put up yesterday. It was one that when I thought about turned out to be life changing. I still wish though that I could adhere to the principles for a long time that I often teach myself but too quickly if I learn a truth, I find I forget it on the applicational level and I must simply ask for your prayers in that area. (I could actually use your prayers regularly as the DeeperWaters blogger does have his own struggles.) Tonight, we will continue going through the book of John and studying the doctrine of the Trinity. We’re going to be in John 6 and reading verses 53-59.

⁵³Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. ⁵⁴Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. ⁵⁵For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. ⁵⁶Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. ⁵⁷Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. ⁵⁸This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” ⁵⁹He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

I really don’t like to go into secondary issues. I am a Protestant, but I do hold that Catholics who believe in Christ as savior and Lord are my Christian brothers and sisters. However, this passage does affect our Trinitarian understanding and I’d like to demonstrate that. I also have no desire to lower the eucharist or Communion meal, but I honestly do not see Jesus speak about that and I think speaking about that here lowers what Jesus is really saying. Now you can use the Eucharist or Communion as a reminder of what he is saying here, but remember it is the reminder that reflects the ideal that is given in this passage.

Let’s look at the first four verses of this passage. I believe that what Jesus is getting at is to compare himself to the manna in the wilderness. Had the Israelites not had that, they would have died. It was what kept them going through the wilderness. The manna was their sustenance.

Christ is comparing himself to that and what is he saying? He must be our sustenance. He must be our life. Apart from him, we are dead. We can have no true life unless it is life in him. He must be that which sustains us through our wilderness. He must be that which we rely on throughout our lives.

Now I do see the Eucharist or the Communion as partially reminding us of that, but considering for many of our churches that’s hardly a full meal, I don’t think that’s the point. I believe those were established to remind us of the new covenant. They could be hinted at here, but they are not the topic. The Jews would not understand a Passover meal being spoken of here. They would have understood Christ as our sustenance. A lot of them didn’t agree of course, but they understood. (In fact, they didn’t agree because they did understand.)

Let’s look at verse 57. Jesus says that he lives because the Father lives. Is this going against the Trinity?

Again, I must ask, “How?”

In Trinitarian thought, Jesus is begotten of the Father eternally. The Father is begotten of no one nor does he proceed from anyone. If there is no Father, there is no Son to be begotten. Because there is a Father, there is the Son also. To say Jesus lives because of the Father does nothing to deny their interconnectedness. 

Considering Jesus’s life is from the Father then, he points to that as he is the conduit by which that life is transferred to us. Note that this was said in the synagogue of a major city. The message would have then been well known and as the text indicates later on, many left at this point and ceased to follow him.

Will you be one of them or will you agree with Peter? “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

I’ve had company over today and am thus really busy so for tonight, I’m putting up an article I’ve got in back-up on the Trinity that I’ve put up elsewhere on the web. Enjoy!

What one believes will ultimately affect their view of reality. Because I believe each key on my computer I hit will produce the letter I want, I have no hesitancy about pushing a button on my keyboard. Because I am on the top floor of my house and believe in the law of gravity and also believe that I am not Clark Kent, I am not going to jump out the window. Yet how many people say that they believe the Trinity and haven’t thought of any ramifications for it beyond “Well I have the right God so I’m going to Heaven and I can beat up Jehovah’s Witnesses when they come to the door.”

 

Let me state this clearly at the beginning. If you are a skeptic of the Trinity, this article is not directly for you. You could gain some insights into my thinking by reading it, but this article has mainly been written for the Trinitarian. This is a work by which I hope, you will begin to think of the Trinity. Too often, the church has been seen as possessing dead and lifeless doctrines from a dead and lifeless God. We believe that God exists, but do we believe that he is living?

 

I will contend that he is living and the Trinity touches all Christian doctrines and as an effect, when we have the vertical aspect of the Trinity in the proper position, the horizontal aspects of how we should live morally will fall into place. This will also benefit those of us who do deal with Arians, for if we have a personal commitment to the doctrine, we will not so easily be swayed from it. One could sway me from trusting the friend I’ve made yesterday, and don’t know much about, but you could not sway me from trusting the friend I’ve known for several years on a personal level.

 

The Trinity shows us that God, by his nature, is relational. When we look in the account of the bush in Exodus 3, we find that God describes himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This should not be glossed over, for there are many ways God could have described himself. He could have identified himself as the creator, the one who cast out Adam and Eve, the one who sent the flood, the one that blessed Abraham with a child in his old age, or the one who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. However, God points to the covenant relationship.

 

It is certainly a fair question to ask why God created mankind or even angels for that matter. To the Arians, we could ask why the first being God supposedly created (And this in the sense of bringing into existence that which was not in existence before. The quote of Arius was “There was a time when the Son was not.”) was created as a personal being as well. There are only two reasons that God would have created and that would have been either need or desire.

 

Now if we have it out of need, then we have a problem. When I was an undergraduate in college, my systematic theology (Or as I called it as the further writing will show on this class, systematic heresy) professor said that God created man because he needed someone to love. My professor was devoted to his faith, but I believe dreadfully lacking at this point.

If God creates out of need, then he is in fact, less than his creation. It is not then that creation depends on God for its existence, but that God depends on creation for his own as well. In effect, God would have been at the mercy of Jesus, the “first-created”. After all, if Jesus had rejected God and chosen to not love him, then what would God do?

One could say that God could destroy Jesus and then create another, but we would then have the situation where God treats people based on what they do instead of who they are. It’s worth noting that God never destroyed Lucifer when he rebelled, nor did he destroy any of the angels that rebelled with him. True, some of them have been locked away and are in punishment now, but that is a far cry from ceasing to exist.

 

In effect, God would only love if the creation loved him. However, we read in 1 John 4:19 that “We love because he first loved us.” But if the other view is true, then God would love because we first loved him. Let us be clear that whatever God does to a person, he does out of love. As hard as it may be for some to imagine, when God allows someone to go to Hell, that is still an act of love as he is honoring the choice of the individual.

 

The other option is that God created out of desire and here, we have the clue as to what love is. God created because in the Trinity, there was an everlasting relationship of love. Man was created so that he might come and join in the dance of love that has been going on for all eternity.

 

The kind of love this is that God has invited us into is the best kind there is. This love is one that seeks the best for the other above himself, the truly selfless love as is our example in Philippians 2. When we see the Father, he is glorifying the Son in the New Testament such as at the baptism or the Transfiguration. When we see the Son, he is pointing to the Father. When we see the Holy Spirit, he is almost inconspicuous for being so silent, for he is always pointing to both of them to give them the glory. No person of the Trinity seeks his own good above that of the others.

 

The best example I can think of would be sexuality. The most personal relationship we can have on Earth, is meant to be a mirror to lead us into the relationship that will take place in eternity. In the relationship, one has the three steps of revelation, followed by trust, and then fellowship.

 

I will have to say at this point that as a single man, I do not speak from personal experience on the sexual relationship, however, this can be seen as a benefit on my part. As most single guys who want to get married, it is a dream and desire of mine as well, but yet, one does not know necessarily why except that we have been designed to have that desire.

 

Should this be any shock to those of us who believe in Heaven, where we know that there are things there that we could never begin to imagine? We long for Heaven, and yet, we do not know exactly what it is about it that will be so wonderful, but we know that it will be wonderful. In the same way, the single man longs for his honeymoon not knowing why it will be wonderful exactly, but knowing that it will be.

 

In sexuality after all, the purpose is to be that each person is seeking the enjoyment of the other above themselves. As the maiden says in the Song of Solomon, “Thus, I have become in his eyes like one bringing contentment.” (Song of Solomon 8:10) A paraphrase would be that the maiden knows that she will bring joy and satisfaction to her lover when he beholds her beauty, and this even before the fellowship.

 

Hence, if one practices in pre-marital sex, one is not being a Trinitarian, as that is using the other to get your own joy instead of seeking the joy of the other. Furthermore, it is insisting that one gives trust before the revelation. This should also point out that sex is to be relational with two people. Any solitary act would be disallowed then.

 

Furthermore, if the act is supposed to be a mirror of the Trinity, and if the experience itself is to be a moment of Heaven, then could we not get a clue as to what heaven is? Heaven would become getting to fully experience the Trinity as the Trinity is. The main joy of Heaven will be in sharing in the life of God himself for all eternity.

 

If we are supposed to seek the good of others above ourselves in sexuality, then why not in all other things as well? The Trinity does not allow for anyone to be a loner. No person in the Trinity is to be classified as an individual as no person would exist apart from the existence of the others. While we value independence in America today, the lesson of the Trinity being a community itself, as was the view of the people at the time of the Bible, is interdependence.

 

Thus, each person in the body of Christ is to seek the benefit of the other above himself. They are to see themselves as part of a community. Each person will have to have established bonds of trust with others in the body working together. One cannot picture the Son acting without the Father. One should not picture a person acting separate from the body of Christ.

 

It has been said before that being is more accurately to be described as being in relationship to. This is how we would say the persons of the Trinity differ. They differ not in their nature but in their relationships to one another. Existing then means that one is involved in a relationship of some time. After all, it is not good for the man to be alone. (Genesis 2:18) Persons are never to be seen as a hindrance to Christianity but as the reason for Christianity.

 

We should also recognize the unique value of each person. The reason the Trinity can love the world is because the Trinity loves one person. If you cannot love one person, you will not be able to love the world. Let this be a reminder to us in the Great Commission as well that all need to hear the gospel. If we are to love the world, then surely we can love our neighbor next door.

 

We will love as well because we already have that flowing bond of love. The writings of John say over and over that we are to be known by our love. It is when we love one another, that we will be mirroring the relationship of the Trinity. It is when we follow Philippians 2, that we will be mirroring the relationship of the Trinity. To do otherwise is to profess Trinitarianism but live Arianism.

 

In closing, my plea to the church is to learn to think Trinity. Ponder the relationships of the persons within the Trinity. Think about their existence of their love that they have shared for all time. Think about how that love has overflowed in allowing you to exist and to grant you salvation. If you haven’t received salvation yet, consider this as an opportunity to be invited into the most perfect relationship of love for all time, one so awesome that it will take eternity to realize how awesome it is.

Hello Everyone. Our visit with the JWs went well, although we did have a surprise. There was only one JW who came. We had a really good talk and I believe it went well. I ask my readers to pray that God opens up the hearts of the JWs that my roommate and I are witnessing to and that he will also give us the knowledge that we need and also the wisdom to use it as we ought. In this field, it’s not enough to just have the knowledge. It also requires that you have the proper information on how and when to use it. It’s tempting to come out with the Trinitarian guns blazing, but that just won’t work. 

For now, let’s turn to the text. John 6:43-51:

⁴³“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. ⁴⁴“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. ⁴⁵It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’^[d] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. ⁴⁶No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. ⁴⁷I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. ⁴⁸I am the bread of life. ⁴⁹Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. ⁵⁰But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. ⁵¹I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Some of you might be wanting me to post my thoughts on the Calvinist/Arminian debate in this verse. Keep wanting. I wish to say that now because I want any reading through this section to know I try my best to avoid commenting on what I consider secondary issues. Deeper Waters is a blog that is interested in defending Mere Christianity. Perchance if this ministry ever broadens, that might change. For now, it is going to be Mere Christianity.

Jesus states that all who learn from the Father come to him. This fits in with the Trinitarian understanding as if you truly wish to know the Father, you will come to the Son. To refuse the Father is to refuse the Son and to refuse the Son is to refuse the Father. It’s a kind of all-or-nothing deal.

He also tells us that no one has seen the Father except the one who is from God. This brings us back to John 1:18. When the text says no one has seen God, it means no one. It does not say no man has seen God. This would mean that while the angels are in his presence, they never get to see him as he is. 

Only Christ can see the Father for he bears the nature of the Father. He is the only one who can truly know the Father in all that he is. For us to understand God, it has been said that we are practically fleas sitting on the backs of elephants.

Christ connects this with everlasting life. If we believe him, we have everlasting life. John has a constant emphasis on truth in his gospel so much so that Christ is said to be the truth in John 14:6. This could be in part to counter pre-Gnostic tendencies that were creeping up in the church.

He then compares himself to the manna in the wilderness. Those who ate of it died, but if anyone eats the bread that he gives, he will live forever.  What does this mean exactly? Since the next section focuses on that aspect, then it would be good to cover that when we get to it.

Which should be tomorrow’s blog. See you then!