Tag: Tremper Longman

Book Plunge: The Bible and the Ballot Chapter 2

How does Scripture help us with political decisions? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Again, there is much that I agree with Longman on in this chapter. After some reminders of the last chapter, he talks about case laws. These are laws that reflect principles found in the Ten Commandments, An interesting example he has of this is to not mix seeds when planting. This was to remind Israel that they were a separate people, though I would also add it was to remind them that God was a pure being without any mixture in His nature.

Yet having said that, Israel was also always welcome, as Longman points out, to outsiders to come in. Those who wanted to come in and be a part of the community could do so. This included people like Ruth, Uriah the Hittite, and Rahab.

One example he also gives of case law is the way that steps weren’t to be built leading up to the altar. Why? Because that way, when the priest wore his robes, his body could not be seen going up the stairs to the altar. That would avoid sexual practices being mixed in to the worship like it was in the surrounding pagan societies.

Longman also writes about the relationship between the testaments, and again, there is largely agreement here. For instance, Matthew 5:17 speaks about the Law being accomplished. There are parts of the Law that we all no longer observe due to Christ coming. (In my recent look at The Pauline Paradox, I stated that the people who hold to this likely no longer offer sacrifices as an example.)

Finally, Longman writes about the Redemptive-Ethical Trajectory. This is where I start to have some concerns and the biggest problem is that Longman doesn’t define his terms. For instance, he asks how some skeptics will ask why slavery wasn’t abolished in the Old Testament or even the New.

My problem here is that he doesn’t define slavery, which might sound simple, but really isn’t. Even if you say, “it’s owning people as property”, then we have to ask what is property? In the Old Testament system, everything in the land belonged to God. No one technically owned anything. It was simply something that was leased to them, as it were, by God.

Not only this, but part of the problem is we can think of slavery and automatically read Civil War slavery into the system. Civil War slavery was entirely wrong, but it was not the same as slavery in the ancient world. Many slaves in times of the Roman Empire had a degree of freedom for instance. In the Old Testament, a slave was to be provided for and really, that was the only way a poor person could earn a living, by working for a richer one.

My biggest concern was when he mentions patriarchy and again, he never defines it or even says what is bad about it and why. If we mean that it is the rule of men, if this is a lesser good that God is accommodating to, then we have to ask why does He state that He is Father and that Jesus is the Son? Why is it that men are constantly leaders in the community and even in the New Testament community, especially considering passages such as 1 Tim. 2?

Patriarchy has become a sort of catch-all term today with an idea that men lead as tyrants. Of course, no man should. I am one who believes that in marriage, it should be male headship, but I also say that if a man is the king of his castle, his wife gets treated like a queen. We all know stories about men throwing out Ephesians 5 and demanding their wives to submit. It’s my contention that if a man is being the man he should be in his house, he will never have to wave around the passage like it’s a threat.

Unfortunately, Longman does not tell us what he has in mind with patriarchy nor why it is ipso facto wrong. I also have no reason to think that if women ruled the world, all would suddenly be a utopia of peace and love. No. Whichever people lead the world, there will be problems, because all people are sinners. The problem is not the system so much as the people.

Next time we’ll look at what Longman calls essential Biblical themes.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: The Bible and the Ballot Chapter 1

How do you read the Bible properly? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In this chapter, there really isn’t much that I disagree with Longman on. We both reject the postmodern idea that there is no inherent meaning in the text. We both embrace insofar as it is possible trying to find out who the author of a text is. We both accept that we should know what the text is in that a poem will be read quite different from a historical narrative, although a narrative can have poetry and poetry can describe a historical event.

Also, the text of the Bible was written for us but not to us. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 tells his audience that what happened in the past to Israel was written for our benefit. It was written for us, but it was written to them. There are a number of things not readily apparent due to time, distance, culture, language, etc.

There are some issues I have some minor quibbles with. For instance, Longman uses the Aposles’ Creed as an example of a summary of the central teachings of the Bible. I have no problem with that. Why would I? I even wrote an ebook on the topic.

My concern comes when we are told that all of these are clearly presented in Scripture and unite Christians worldwide. Not so fast there. What about the line that Jesus descended into Hell? There could be some Christians who think that Jesus literally did go to Hell for a time. I thoroughly disagree with them, yet that seems to be what the creed says.

Note that in this that I am not saying that the creed is in error in what it says. I am saying that there is a far cry from saying that this is something that is clearly taught in Scripture seeing as it can be debated amongst Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox what this term means. If anything, we can say Jesus told the thief on the cross, “Today, you will be with me in Paradise.” I seriously doubt by that He was saying “We’re going to Hell together.”

There could be also Protestants out there that will balk at the idea of believing in the holy catholic church. Of course, properly understood, this is catholic with a  little and not Catholic with the big one. This is just saying that one believes in the church universal.

Not only that, but a large number of people will have things that they think should be in there. A number of Protestants would likely see justification by faith as a clear teaching of Scripture. (And I would agree with them) A number of Catholics and Orthodox might want to see something on the Eucharist in there.

However, these are minor issues. I think Longman moves past matters too quickly, but fortunately, there are footnotes that point to other references that can be used. I am sure Longman and I would both agree that a reader should consult a much fuller book on how to interpret Scripture. This is not to discredit Longman on this point, but just to say one chapter can’t have the whole nuance a book does.

Next time, we’ll get into something more substantial.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: The Bible and the Ballot Introduction

Are we a Christian nation? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I was watching the Facebook battle between Robert Gagnon and Tremper Longman over politics. I sided with Gagnon. In the comments, Longman challenged me to read his book The Bible and the Ballot. Seeing as I didn’t want to buy the book, I decided to go to the seminary library and fortunately, I found it.

So let’s start with the introduction.

I don’t disagree with everything Longman says. He says the the state is not the church, but I can’t really think of any Christians I know who think that. I am aware of Christians who hold to a theonomy position, of course, but not any who think right now the state is the church. This left me wondering who he had in mind when writing this.

The part that really surprised me was when he said that America today is not a Christian nation. He says this both about its founding and its present status. (2) He says that our founders did include some people of faith, but many who were influenced more by enlightenment thought. In the footnote, he points to John Locke.

I found this utterly astounding. For one thing, John Locke is the same one who wrote The Reasonableness of Christianity. He was heavily influenced in his writings by the Apostle Paul. Longman gives no indication of knowing about this. Would any of his readers realize this or would they walk away thinking Locke was a purely secular individual?

Second, there is the statement about the Founding Fathers, but no sources whatsoever listed on them. There is no interaction with an author like John Eidsmoe, for instance. The reader will be left confused and if anything, thinking the majority or at least a sizable number of the Fathers were atheists or secularists of some kind.

Third, when he says that America is not a Christian nation, what does this mean? Does it mean that there is no nationally established church? Sure, but that does not mean that the nation is not Christian. Does he mean that the government is not built on a Christian system of some sort? Even granting that, the government is not the nation.

Not only this, one of our founding documents, the Treaty of Paris, was done in the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity. Unlike the Treaty of Tripoli, there is no dispute on its wording. There is even a Supreme Court ruling from 1852 saying America is a Christian nation.

I understand that Longman is an Old Testament and Ancient Near East scholar and not one on American history, but that makes it all the more important to back claims that are made. Unfortunately, this simple section has left me puzzled by what is meant and wondering just how much of the Founding Fathers that Longman has interacted with.

Fortunately, that is the most problematic part of the introduction. Next time we look at this book, we’ll look at a guide on how one should read Scripture. I hope you’ll join me.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

Deeper Waters Podcast 6/9/2018: Tremper Longman

What’s coming up? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Noah’s Ark is often one of the most popular stories of the Bible. It’s one that we grow up hearing. The story seems simple enough. The world is full of evil people. God has had enough. He sends a flood and everyone dies except the good people, Noah and his family. As children, we don’t ask many questions.

Nowadays, we do. Not only are we asking questions, people around us are asking questions. Christians might know this story well, but so do our skeptical friends, and they don’t believe it. After all, they want to talk about the scientific data behind the story. They want to know if the whole world was flooded and how does that mesh with science?

Meanwhile, we realize that Israel was going through their own trials at the time and living in the midst of pagan cultures. These cultures also had flood stories. Maybe Israel just copied them and applied it to YHWH. Maybe it’s all just a myth. How should we approach the story?

To discuss this, we need someone who knows the Old Testament very well. We also need someone who knows the cultures surrounding Israel very well. We also need someone who will be able to tell us if we even need to bother to address the scientific concerns or not. Fortunately, The Lost World of the Flood is with us now. It is by John Walton and Tremper Longman, and the latter will be my guest this Saturday.

So who is he?

According to his bio:

Dr. Tremper Longman III (B.A. Ohio Wesleyan University; M.Div. Westminster Theological Seminary; M.Phil. and Ph.D. Yale University) is Distinguished Scholar and Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at Westmont College.  He has written over 30 books including commentaries on Genesis, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Daniel, and Nahum. His most recent books are The Fear of the Lord is Wisdom: A Theological Introduction to Wisdom Literature in Israel and Lost World of the Flood (with John Walton). His books have been translated into seventeen different languages. In addition, as a Hebrew scholar, he is one of the main translators of the popular New Living Translation of the Bible and has served as a consultant on other popular translations of the Bible including the Message, the New Century Version, the Holman Standard Bible, and the Common Bible. He has also edited and contributed to a number of Study Bibles and Bible Dictionaries, most recently the Baker Illustrated Bible Dictionary (2013). Tremper and Alice currently reside in Alexandria, VA and  have three sons (Tremper IV, Timothy, Andrew) and four granddaughters (Gabrielle, Mia, Ava, and Emerson).  For exercise, he enjoys playing squash.

I hope you’ll be listening to this interview. We’ll be talking about the book and how we moderns should approach the flood narrative today. I hope it will be of great help to you in your apologetics endeavors. Please go on iTunes also and leave a positive review of the Deeper Waters Podcast.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

 

Book Plunge: The Lost World of the Flood

What do I think of this book by John Walton and Tremper Longman published by IVP? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I always get excited when I see that a new Lost World book has come out. Walton’s books are always very enlightening and this time, he’s teamed up with another great Old Testament scholar, Tremper Longman. They are discussing the great flood of Noah in this one and what the text says about it.

The first proposition put forward is the most important one in my opinion. This is that Genesis is an ancient document. Sounds obvious. Right? We all know it, but few of us seem to remember it. We read the text thinking it was written to people like us with a culture like us. That explains our tendency to read science into the text.

They also make the point that it’s not God’s purpose to teach us science in the Bible. We get a message about God’s work in the world. We do not get a message about how the world works. The message transcends any false beliefs that the ancient culture would have, such as the sky being solid and there being a body of water above.

This does not affect inerrancy. Inerrancy is about what the text affirms. The text speaks about thinking with our entrails, but that is not the teaching of the Bible. We do not go there to learn how our bodies work in thinking. We can learn some things about what to think and how to think, but not a scientific assessment of thinking.

The writers also do believe that there is a real event in the past being described. We often make a distinction between the metaphysical and the empirical. They can be different, but for the ancients, the interpretation of the event was much more important than the event itself. For the pagans, that would be their gods were showing their will through the events. For Israel, it was YHWH.

It’s also important to note that with the Genesis flood, we have a divine interpretation of the event right there. We do not have this with events today. Sorry, but we cannot speak with divine authority on why it is that a hurricane or a tsunami happened.

The writers also stress that hyperbole was a part of ancient writing. This goes on in the flood. It is no doubt that the flood is being described in terms that seem global. That does not mean that the flood itself was global. The ark itself is a huge wooden boat even by today’s standards. One can look at Ken Ham’s ark and think it’s possible, but keep in mind that was built using all manner of modern technology. Noah did not have that.

The writers also have a section on other flood accounts in ancient literature. They are there and while there are similarities, there are also vast differences. The biggest are not in the historical details, but in the theological interpretations of the events. These are the most important ones and yet, they’re usually left out.

The next section deals with the flood itself and in the context of the narrative. They show the connection it has to the sons of God passage in Genesis 6 and to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11. All of these reflect on the role of order and the importance of the covenant.

The final section relates to how to approach issues of our day with the text. There is a section by another author who argues about the lack of evidence of a worldwide flood. As with many scientific issues, I thought it was fascinating and yet I found it very hard to understand. There’s also questions about how science and Christianity work together today. I agree with the authors definitely that we need never fear science. If it shows an interpretation of Scripture is likely false with good data, then we should really consider it. They rightly cite this informed opinion.

Often, a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances, … and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.

The shame is not so much that an ignorant person is laughed at, but rather that people outside the faith believe that we hold such opinions, and thus our teachings are rejected as ignorant and unlearned. If they find a Christian mistaken in a subject that they know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions as based on our teachings, how are they going to believe these teachings in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think these teachings are filled with fallacies about facts which they have learnt from experience and reason.

Reckless and presumptuous expounders of Scripture bring about much harm when they are caught in their mischievous false opinions by those not bound by our sacred texts. And even more so when they then try to defend their rash and obviously untrue statements by quoting a shower of words from Scripture and even recite from memory passages which they think will support their case ‘without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.

Reading that, you could think it was written today. It wasn’t. It was written over 1,500 years ago by Saint Augustine. You can read it in his book The Literal Meaning of Genesis. If we believe God offered both the book of nature and the book of Scripture, we need have no fear of any scientific endeavor.

Differences of opinion I have with the authors are on minute points of interpretation of passages and not on major issues. Like all other Lost World books, this one is incredibly eye-opening and enlightening. I highly recommend it and I look forward to the next one.

In Christ,
Nick Peters