Why I Don’t Debate Some Issues

Is it important for the apologist to be able to answer everything? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

We who are in the field of apologetics often use 1 Peter 3:15 (incorrectly in my opinion) and the verse tells us to always be ready to give an answer. The danger is that we think that it is important for us to be able to answer every question. It’s not.

You mean there are some objections to what you believe that you don’t bother answering? That’s right.

How is that possible?

It is possible because I realize that I am one person and I am not capable of being a specialist in every field and when you step out into fields that you do not study well, you will be devoured by those who do study them well.

It is because of this that I have decided to put my focus on what I consider the most important issues of all. A great danger I have seen in Christianity today is too often we are marrying our Christianity to aspects that it does not depend on.

What do I mean by that? Well if you enter into a marriage, it’s till death do you part. You are not to break that covenant under any circumstances whatsoever barring extreme situations. (Yes. I do think there are cases where divorce can sadly be the best option) You enter into a relationship where the two of you are bound together so that if one falls, the other falls as well.

Recently on the Unbelievable broadcast, there was a debate on the age of the Earth and the young-earther was asked the question of what difference this makes. If you were to find out that the Earth was old, what would that do to your faith?

I was disappointed. The young-earther never really answered the question but gave the viewpoint that if you can’t trust Genesis, then you can’t really trust the rest of the Bible which in turn I take it to mean, you can’t even trust the resurrection.

The reality is that most Christians be they young-earth, old-earth, theistic evolutionists, etc. will say that they trust Genesis. What do they not trust? They do not trust an interpretation of Genesis that they believe to be in error.

The great danger in this is that if YEC falls, then that means automatically that Christianity falls for some people. I would not want that to be the case either for OEC or for TE. If you are wrong on creation, well you are wrong on creation. It does not mean that your interpretation is equal to what Scripture says or that everything in Scripture is wrong.

A sad part of this to me is that we Christians are meant to be people of the new creation. Does that mean old creation does not matter? Not at all! By all means, have an opinion! Have a strong opinion! Just always remember that your doctrine of creation is not the foundation of your faith. When Gentiles were being preached to in the NT, it is doubtful that the first people to evangelize them came out and started with Genesis 1. They likely started with Jesus Himself.

In fact, this is why I don’t even bother debating evolution any more. Does that mean I’m TE? Not at all. Does that mean I oppose TE? Not that either. It means simply that I don’t really care. It’s an interesting topic, but I really don’t have the time to focus in on it and do the study to answer the questions as I am busy studying other areas.

To use an analogy, sometimes, someone will send me one of those items that shows how big and massive the universe is in comparison to us. You’ve seen some like that I’m sure. I find it utterly fascinating. There are many things about space that I probably become a little boy again at and just get thrilled, but I don’t really have the time to go out and do the reading on the topic. It’s interesting when I see it, but then I need to get back to my main focus and if you asked me for my opinion on astronomical matters, I might be able to give one, but the most I’d say is that it just looks interesting.

Now suppose on the other hand that you are qualified in the field and can discuss matters such as evolution and you think this gives you an opening to spread the gospel? I’m not going to stop you. If you’re convinced and you think you can make a case, who am I to say no? I just won’t be the one joining you on your side of the debate because I do not know the issue.

It is also why I do not sign up immediately on the ID bandwagon now. In fact, as a Thomist, I do have some concerns with it. Still, if someone thinks they can make the case, let them. I’m not intending to stop them.

I have instead focused my efforts mainly on the question of resurrection. If that is true, then Christianity is true. Could I still have some questions I wonder about like the origin of life, the interpretation of Genesis, or any other issues? Of course, but I have my main question answered.

To which, let me bring up another issue here. When we defend the resurrection, we don’t need Inerrancy to do that? I hold to Inerrancy, but it is not an essential. Note in saying something is not an essential, that does not mean it is unimportant. Yet when it comes to Inerrancy, I will make it a point to not play what I call “Stump The Bible Scholar.” This is where the unbeliever keeps presenting “contradiction after contradiction” and if you cannot answer one of them to his satisfaction, then he has no need to study Christianity. (By the way skeptics, please try to review anywhere you can for answers to such contradictions beforehand. Most of these have already been answered in the past 2,000 years. It’s doubtful you’ve found a new one)

Unfortunately, I’ve seen several atheists play that game. It doesn’t work. For instance, NT scholars who don’t hold to Inerrancy will tell you that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus existed, was crucified, that the disciples claimed to see Him alive again, and that James and Paul converted. How do they know this? Inerrancy? No. Historical research.

In the same way, I’ve seen Christians before say that if there is one contradiction in the Bible, then Christianity is false and the resurrection is not true. Christian. I cannot state this strongly enough. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER take that position! If you do, you are going to be walking a fine line thinking you have to carry with you an answer to every single contradiction. Note that I think thus far they can all be answered, but while I consider myself to have an excellent memory, I do not think I could memorize the replies to EVERY SINGLE objection.

I also think this is consistent. I would not think the evolutionary scientist should be able to give an explanation for every single animal in existence and answer every single creationist argument. I don’t think anyone could do all the research necessary in one life to answer such claims. They need to establish the main event and even if there are some problematic positions, oh well.

My advice to readers of the blog today is to also choose your area and focus in on it. Do the best at it that you can, but if you seek to try to answer every single objection that there could be to your worldview, you’re just going to end up embarrassing yourself as you can’t master it all. Choose where you want to learn and focus in on that.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Why Reading Is So Important

Does it matter that you read? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Right now, I’m a bit ticked off. Why? I get up this morning and I’m just browsing Facebook and one of the first stories that I see is this one about a librarian who I immediately find disgraceful. Those interested can read the story here.

Basically, there’s a boy who has won the reading contest every year and she wants him to step aside and is even thinking of turning the contest, which it is, into a pull a winner out of a hat deal. Many kids are doing the bare minimum of reading just to attend a party. Tyler, the boy who is winning every year, is not.

I have been an avid reader all my life. Growing up, my great love was mysteries. I went to the library and checked out and read all the Hardy Boys books that I could find. Then, having read those, I actually went and read Nancy Drew. Heck. Who cares if the hero is a female? It’s a mystery. My mother read Mary Higgins Clark and I started reading all the books of hers that I could.

And honestly, I wish I’d done more. I had no particular subject matter driving me when I was younger or I would have likely read more.

Today, I study apologetics and I find reading to be immensely valuable. I had read the whole Bible by the time I was in 7th grade and from them on and still today, I start right over and go through the whole book again when I’m done. I can easily say the Bible is the book I have read more than any other.

When I first started into apologetics, my parents started to panic some. Why? Because I came home from the bookstore constantly with more books. It’s not that they complained about me reading. Of course not! Their concern was “How will we have room for all of these books?” In fact, when I got married, I had to share living space with someone and so I had to part with several books. Right now, the bookshelves in here are still full and I’m having to pile books on top and still more are coming in. Allie really keeps hoping I’ll get most of the books on the Kindle instead.

How could I not encourage reading?

What are the benefits of reading?

The more you read, the less likely you’ll be caught flat-footed. Learn the subject matter you want to know well and read on it. You’re not going to be able to be a master of everything. That’s fine. Choose what you want to be proficient in and go for that area. Enjoy it to the best of your ability and read in it. That way, you will know the facts the best in the area that you’re reading in and be able to explain why you believe what you believe. (This doesn’t apply to just Christians. I’d encourage this for everyone)

Read both sides of the argument. It’s easy to know your worldview is right when you read one side. It’s in fact easier to know it when you read both sides. Why? Because you yourself have witnessed the comparison and allowed your worldview to be tested by the best that is out there. Of course, for this, I encourage reading only the best books that you can by those who you know have done their homework.

Also, when you read, you hear more in your own mind than your own thoughts. Now none of us I suspect have mastered this yet, but I know when I’m going through a tough time, I don’t just have the tape recorder of my own head going. I have thoughts from several other sources. I have Scripture. I have philosophers I have read. I have great ideas of scholarship. I have wisdom from numerous places stored in my memory based on the things that I have read. When I want to know my Christianity is true, I don’t ever go and try to find a subjective feeling. I think on the things that I have read and examine them and see if I have missed anything.

Furthermore, I think this is biblical. We are to be informed in our faith and wise. Now to be sure, not everyone is meant to be a scholarly type. Not everyone will sit and read continuously. That’s okay. At least have something that you’re always going through even if you’re just reading a few pages a night before you go to bed.

Read something also that sparks your attention. Some books are bad. Some books are just boring. Not everyone is an engaging writer. If the book you’re reading is not a good book and you have no personal obligation to read it, then don’t bother.

Also, fiction can be highly beneficial. I don’t read a lot of it, but you can still get something good out of it. I still like to read Mary Higgins Clark. If someone dropped a Hardy Boys on my doorstep, I’d probably read it. I have also read all the Monk mystery novels and when Smallville was out, yep. I read those too.

You could consider the fictional classics. Bram Stoker’s “Dracula” is actually written from a Christian worldview. There’s something to get you started talking to fans of Twilight. You could read the Greek plays, Aesop’s fables, or Grimm’s fairy tales. (Which I also understand to be from a Christian worldview) Of course, many of us already know about classics like the Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings.

I would add one caveat. Still make sure you take time for your own family. Even Ecclesiastes says too much study will make you tired. There is a time for play. I still do some gaming, though usually while listening to a podcast to get the most out of my time. I also know that if Allie really wants to do something with me, that’s the time to put the book away. I still make the time. For instance, when she’s gone to sleep, I will often get up and go into the living room and just mind my own self getting in some late night reading.

The librarian in the above story I consider disgraceful. I’m a graduate of Johnson University (Formerly Johnson Bible College) around here and still go to the library and many of the professors have sadly agreed with me that I use the library more than most students. One professor told me about seeing a student over the summer and asking “What are you reading over the summer?” and getting the answer of “Nothing.” I complimented him on his self-restraint in not smacking the guy right then and there.

I say this and I think people of every worldview could agree with it. Read. Years ago, I went back to my old high school and went to an English class I used to belong to and the teacher introduced me to the students. What did I find myself telling the students to do without prompting from the teacher? Telling them to read. It was the most important advice I could give.

It still is.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

The Worth of a Woman

Can you put a price on a lady? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I recently wrote a post in response to someone arguing about why we should have abortion laws as they are and not tightened and one aspect he included was that your sex life is at stake. The link to that post can be found here.

A good friend of Deeper Waters (And I mean that sincerely. This is someone whose opinion I value highly) has raised some concerns about some statements I made. I think I see what the concern is and I would like to address it.

The idea that I presented in the piece is that a woman is going to determine what she’s worth. I think the problem is that I was not clear as to whether I was talking about subjective worth or objective worth when I was writing.

So let’s state it clearly. A woman is worth everything. In fact, so is a man. In medieval times, it was said the life of one human being was worth more than the entire universe. After all, humans bear the image of God. The universe doesn’t. The universe is made for us. We are not made for it.

Each person who lives is someone who Jesus Christ loves and, in my opinion, contrary to a Calvinist position and no, I’m not debating that here, died for. Of course, when I say that, I wish to emphasize that it is not because Jesus has some need of any one of us. He doesn’t. God could exist just fine without us. We cannot exist just fine without Him. It is His abundance of love that we are to respond to.

Yet while each of us has this great worth in us, many of us do not see this great worth that we have. Thus, when I said that a woman is going to determine what she’s worth, it was not an objective sense, but rather in a subjective sense.

In economics, value is seen as relative. A shopkeeper can set up a price for an item. Will you buy that item? You will buy it if you have the resources, it is something you desire, and if you think that that object is more valuable than what you pay for it.

If you’re at the food court at the mall, you might really want a slice of pizza, but if the store was selling them for $10 a piece, you would probably not buy. Why? Because you like pizza, but you think that price is over-priced! You could go over to Subway or Chick-Fil-A instead and get something that you might desire less but is more reasonable with your budget.

On the other hand,you might want that big screen TV and it could even be on sale, but if you do not have the resources in order to get it, you should hold off on it.

Finally, there could be an item to you that’s really interesting and you do have the resources, but right now, it just really isn’t something that’s as desirable as another object so you won’t pay the price on order to get it.

Prices change in the market in response to many factors like cost of production, how many of that item are left, etc. In some places, like EBay, one can get more out of an item because someone who wants it more than anyone else is going to be willing to pay more for it.

None of that determines any objective worth on the item, but it does work with a subjective worth. Many of us have probably paid more for an item than it’s really worth simply because we wanted it so badly and didn’t want to have to risk someone else getting it. Some of us might also have haggled for items at garage sales before and places like that.

So now let’s take this over to the worth of a woman.

A woman’s objective worth in the eyes of God I do not think changes. Her subjective worth however, does change, depending on how she sees herself. If a woman sees herself as no good, she is more prone to put a low price on herself.

This is evidenced, for instance, in girls that want someone they can love and so freely give themselves to men just so they can get pregnant and have a baby to love. They can often go to homes that care for women in need and as soon as they leave, they’re out there trying to get pregnant again.

Of course, there’s nothing wrong with a woman wanting to get pregnant, but we do see a problem with the behavior of these women. It is not thinking about what is good for the child, but what is good for their own benefit. That child is a huge responsibility and needs to be treated as such.

If a girl thinks the only good she can do is to bring pleasure to a man sexually, then she will also be more prone to sleep around. After all, in her eyes, that is what she is worth. There are women who through various forms of abuse suffer with this kind of mindset where they have been treated as a sexual object and soon see themselves as just sexual objects.

This should also be a warning to married man. We dare not take up the attitude that the only purpose our wives have in our lives is to give us sexual pleasure. I make it a point when talking about Allie to people to point out that Allie is my partner, but I don’t just mean sexually. I mean she is my life support. She is my encouragement. She is the one that I rely on. The only one who ranks above her in my life is God Himself. As has been said by someone I saw recently, marriage is two people sharing one life. Men. We must ALWAYS be living our lives in honor of our wives and if we treat them as just sex objects for our pleasure, we are not honoring them the way Scripture says. Of course, we should enjoy the pleasure of being with them, and they should enjoy the pleasure of being with us, but they do not exist just for that.

My contention is that if a woman sells herself at a low price, subjectively, she is making a statement about herself and how she is to be valued. That statement can lead when done enough to a statement about all other women. After all, if a guy can buy the big screen TV at one store for $1,000 and the exact same one at another store for $800, all things being equal, which one will he go with? If the guy is just interested in sexual pleasure and woman A has the price of “marriage” while B has the price of “a good month of dating”, which one will the guy go for?

Women. Please always watch the guys you are dating and find out what they really want. If all they want from you is just sex, then this is not marriage material for you. If they really want your sex, then they should be able to pay the price. If they’re not willing to pay the price of marriage, then do they really want your sex?

Of course, this does not mean mistakes might not be made by people who have the full intention of waiting until marriage. After all, we will ALL be tempted in the dating relationship. Certainly when I was dating Allie, there were times when I was very tempted, but I had to learn to control myself and wait for the proper time for those desires to be fulfilled.

So what happens if a couple makes a mistake?

In the Christian system, you repent and move on. It doesn’t mean you break up, but you make a vow then to practice chastity until marriage and wait. You seek to forgive one another and anyone else you might have wronged. If pregnancy is the result, you accept full responsibility. Of course, the Christian worldview condemns abortion so that’s not an option. In that case, I definitely think marriage should be done since that child needs their mother and father both and the child is best raised by its biological parents.

Let us make no mistake. We are all worth more than this universe, but we often don’t see it. One of the greatest blessings that could come in the Christian community I think is to see our proper relationship to God through Jesus Christ. We need to move it beyond the “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” Jesus is not just a friend you make like any other friendship. He’s the sovereign Lord of the universe. We need to figure out who He is first, then figure out who we are in Him, and live our lives truly as if we are in Him, something we all work on when we struggle with our own worth in this world.

So again, could the solution be that we just need good doctrine and good application of that doctrine? Has the church missed something by just having application without a foundation in it? Is this the way the church is failing in sexual ethics? We just have a position that says “Don’t do this sexually” and we have it floating in air that we don’t know why we hold it when temptation comes? Of course, the added danger is that if we also float doctrines like the resurrection in the air without telling people why they should hold it, if we dispense with the former, the latter is certainly on its way out the door.

I hope this does clarify my position for all involved. Certainly, every woman, regardless of the mistakes she has made in her life, is priceless. The problem is that simply people just don’t know how much they’re really worth. It’s no surprise they sell themselves short.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: What’s In The Word?

What do I think of Ben Witherington’s Book? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

“What’s In The Word?” is a short approach for laymen to starting to understand what is going on in socio-rhetorical looks at the NT. Ben Witherington is most certainly an authority in this field having spent decades studying it and having written numerous commentaries on books of the NT along the lines of this view point.

What is it? It’s looking at the NT in its social setting and seeing the writings for their strong rhetorical value realizing they are in many ways, oral writings. These were not meant to be read privately and silently as we often do today, but meant to be read publicly and quite likely, by someone who knew how to read them the way the author wanted them to be read.

This kind of look has serious ramifications for how we approach the NT. Witherington shows us that the writers of the text took from the social background of their time, including the use of rhetoric, and wrote their information in a style to be engaging with the audience and draw their attention and form a powerful argument.

This also has an impact on the idea of forgery. For someone to do a good forgery they would have to know how to write to a specific audience concerning a specific problem and do so in a way while avoiding the audience knowing who they really are. Witherington considers this possibility highly unlikely in the light of socio-rhetorical studies. Of course, he knows that this did happen in the ancient world, but many of these writings were general treatises and not dealing with specific situations by specific people. He notes also that there is no knowledge we have of “schools of Paul and James” where someone would learn to write in their style to honor them like one would write in the style of Pythagoras.

Witherington also deals with biblical passages that are highly misunderstood. For one example, consider Galatians 3:28. Is this a passage saying that there are no distinctions in Christ whatsoever? No. We are all in Christ and we are all still male or female, but that does not change that we all have the same entry to Christ. Note also there is something much greater going on.

Paul is writing in a situation that is all about making distinctions, such as between Jew and Gentile and what one must do to be seen as in the covenant. If there is no Jew or Gentile, then this would mean that Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be saved. This becomes about a whole lot more than just all of us realizing we’re equal. This is about breaking down the boundaries that had always separated Jews and Gentiles, something quite monumental.

Also, readers who get this book will get a good basic education on the importance of oral tradition and how it impacted the world of the time and the role of memorization in it. This is an important subject we have to grasp as it is a constant refrain of the opponents of Christianity.

In conclusion, I highly endorse this work as giving an important outlook on the socio-rhetorical world at the time and think that for the person who is wanting to get a start in looking at this world, then Ben Witherington’s book is an excellent way to go.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 8/17/2013: The Mormon Research Ministry

What’s coming up Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters!

There you are sitting at home perhaps enjoying reading a novel or one of your favorite TV programs (Yes, it’s always during your favorite TV program) when there’s a knock at your door. You look out the peephole and see these two nice looking gentlemen in white shirts with black name tags on that identify them as elders from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

That’s right. The Mormons.

Who are these people? Well, there are few that will dispute that Mormons are some of the nicest people that they meet and they seem to be sincere and they say they believe in Jesus, so surely we should count them as Christians. Right?

Or maybe not.

Not according to my guest this Saturday, Bill McKeever, who runs the Mormon Research Ministry. Bill has spent decades studying Mormonism and when it comes to those who want to read the best critiques of the Mormon worldview, I point them to the Mormon Research Ministry.

If you think that the Mormons are just another branch of orthodox Christianity, I hope you’ll be listening to this show. There are many beliefs that many Christians don’t realize that Mormons have. In fact, it could even be that there are many beliefs held in orthodox Mormonism that many Mormons don’t know are held to.

Naturally, something that must be discussed is the story of how Mormonism came to be. What is it that really happened to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism? Is he really the kind of person that we can trust? Did he have any aspects to him that could cause us to be suspicious of him? Are the charges true that he practiced polygamy? Did he raise up his own army? Important for us Christians, since he claimed to have visions, what makes him different from someone like the apostle Paul?

What about the Book of Mormon? Is it really a testimony to events that happened here in the Americas several centuries ago? Has it been handed down reliably? Is there anything to the charge that racism existed in the original BOM?

We can also discuss what about Mormonism and their views on God and Jesus. Do they believe just what Christians believe about both, or do they hold to views such as the idea that God was once a man as we are and became God through eternal progression? Is Jesus really the spirit-brother of Lucifer?

And of course, a great one to discuss is McKeever’s point about the impossible gospel of Mormonism. What must a Mormon do to be saved and if they go that route, is it really going to be possible for them to be saved?

I hope you’ll join me for this episode to learn much about this group that could well be on its way to being the next world religion. The show time is 3-5 EST on Saturday, August 17th. My guest is Bill McKeever, and the call-in number is 714-242-5180.

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Some Questions Concerning My Preterism

Why do I hold to the eschatological view that I do? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I normally don’t write about secondary issues, but eschatology is one subject in this category I do enjoy and I also think it has direct apologetic relevance, such as when asked about if Jesus got wrong the time of His coming. Last night at an apologetics meeting, a loyal reader of the blog asked if I would write about this again. This got us into a conversation that our group leader soon joined in on. I’d like to take some comments and questions from that discussion and present them here to explain my position.

“Are you a true Preterist?”

Yes. I am certainly not a false one. I am a true one in the sense that I hold to what Preterism really teaches. I hold to the Olivet Discourse being fulfilled and to the fact that Jesus did have his coming to his throne in 70 A.D. as shown in the destruction of Jerusalem and that one day He will return to meet the living and raise the dead, those who have done good to a life of eternal joy, and those who have done evil to a life of eternal torment. (Note. Some Preterists would hold to a position of annihilationism.)

“Where do you depart from the Preterism that says everything has been fulfilled?”

This has it backwards. It is not the case that my belief is a departure from that viewpoint. It is that their viewpoint is a departure from not only mine, but from the historic Christian faith, that has held to the fact of the bodily return of Jesus just as much as the bodily resurrection and the final judgment. Believing in these events is one of the core doctrines of Christianity and a statement of eschatology upheld in the creeds of the historic Christian church.

“Do you think when Jesus returns He’ll become the King of the Jews?”

Not at all! You might as well ask if I’ll become human on my birthday next month. How could I? I am already human. In the same way, Jesus is already the King of the Jews. He is the King of everyone. He’s the King of this universe entirely and just because someone does not recognize that does not make Him any less Lord. Caesar was not Lord in the Roman Empire because of popular vote or personal choice. Caesar was Lord because he ruled. Christ is Lord because He rules as well.

“When will Christ return?”

Beats me. We don’t make those kinds of predictions. My thinking is that it will happen when the world has been evangelized and more and more people have come to the gospel. That is my guess from Scripture, but that cannot be put in a time frame. I do note that 2 Peter 3 says we can speed His coming and I think this is through the work of evangelism. Do you want Jesus to return soon? Don’t go trying to make a red heifer or set up a temple in Jerusalem! Do evangelism! You know, that thing that he’s already commanded us to do anyway!

“What about all the work to build a temple in Jerusalem?”

What about it? People are doing it, but it’s an exercise in futility. Want to see the real temple of God? Go look in the mirror! Paul told us while the old temple was still standing that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God dwells in us. To return to a temple is to return to a system that has been abandoned.

“What about the land promise to Abraham?”

What about it? The promise was set in place until the one through whom it was meant for. That is Jesus. Jesus has come. Because of that, the covenant is done and we are in the new covenant. Why return to the old? In fact, those who are in Christ, the true children of Abraham, are told that they will not just inherit a piece of land, but will in fact inherit the whole world!

Furthermore, when we look at the NT evidence, even a Levite named Joseph, also called Barnabas, sold his land in Acts 4. Why would a Levite sell the promised inheritance? Probably because he understood that it was not going to be worth anything. Jesus was going to judge the place soon and the old system was done. In fact, if you want to see that this is what the early church was teaching, just look at Acts 6:14.

“So you don’t see any connection with prophecy and what’s going on in the newspaper today?”

Nope. Not a bit. There have been several “prophecy experts” throughout the years. Here’s something they all had in common. They were all wrong! Every one of them! So if I’m approaching a group that has a track record of always being wrong, why should I listen to them? We make a point that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have always been wrong about prophecy, but then we ignore the most popular teachers today that are always wrong about prophecy and want to say “Yes. Well that was that generation, this generation is the one!”

Something that’s been said by most every generation.

“What about the evil in the world? How can you say Christ is King now?”

Again, what about it? Christ on this Earth said that if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the Kingdom of God is among you. Thus, Jesus was bringing the Kingdom in their very midst and yet there was the devil right there at work. In fact, we could say the devil was the most active during that time.

Also, look at Psalm 110, one of the most important chapters for studying eschatology in the Bible. “The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” Please observe that. Jesus is sitting at the right hand, a place of rule, UNTIL His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. It does not say He will sit there when His enemies are made a footstool. Jesus is at the right hand right now. What does that mean? It means He reigns right now!

“Don’t you know that there were worse things that could happen than what the Jews under went in 70 A.D.? A nuclear holocaust would be much worse!”

This is problematic in that it’s saying “If you can think of anything worse than the destruction that happened then, then you haven’t thought about the worst tribulation. Okay. Then should we reject that in Revelation itself if taken as futurist? After all, we have passages that talk about, say, 7,000 being killed. Make it 70,000. That’s worse. What about if 1/3 of the Earth is killed? Okay. Make it 1/2. That’s worse.

I also always ask if Solomon was the wisest king who ever lived. He was promised that in 1 Kings 3. Does this mean Solomon was wiser than Jesus? We are told about how Hezekiah was the most righteous king who had a Passover unlike any before. We are told none after him or before him were like him in 2 Kings 18:5.

We’re also told the same thing about the righteousness of Josiah in 2 Kings 23:25.

So not only was the author foolish enough to contradict himself in such a short time, but apparently, both of these kings were more righteous than Jesus!

The language is clearly hyperbolic. Just look at old destructions. What about the flood? What about Sodom? What about the plagues on Egypt? All that is being said is a superlative, much like Nebuchadnezzar being called King of Kings. That’s how people did superlatives back then.

“I can’t accept everything as hyperbole.”

Nor am I asking you to! The idea is that Preterists allegorize and make the text hyperbolic. The reality is we ALL know there are allegories and hyperbolic statements in Scripture. Despite what is being said by some, Jesus does not really want you to HATE your parents. He instead wants you to realize that compared to Him, your devotion to your family must be secondary.

We also know that there are allegories, yet I don’t know a single Preterist who would say everything in the Bible is allegorical or everything in the Bible is hyperbolic. Instead, we simply try to study the Scripture to find what the original author wanted us to get. In fact, we hold our position because there are some indicators that we indeed think should be taken literally.

These are timing indicators. Before entering the apocalyptic mode of Revelation, we are told that these things will take place soon. In Matthew 24, we are told that this generation will not pass away. If you look through all of Matthew, every reference to “This generation” refers to the generation that Jesus interacted with. Am I supposed to think that the meaning suddenly changes when it reaches its grand finale in the greatest generation claim of all?

“I just don’t see it.”

In reality, I totally understand this one! I think most Preterists would in fact! I used to be a pre-trib, pre-mill dispensationalists. I have no problem with recognizing such as my brothers and sisters in Christ after all. Why would I? I’m married to one. We agree on the essentials. They’re just wrong on eschatology.

Most of us hold this view I suspect because we grew up with it and we’ve heard it all our lives and it usually seems like the simplest view, but I honestly cannot hold to it. I can safely say there is not a single verse of Scripture on this that makes me wonder if such a scheme might possibly be true. That is how sure I am that at least the normally default position is incorrect.

What I advise is to just let people be willing to examine the reasons why people like myself hold the position that we do. An excellent book on this is Gary DeMar’s “Last Days Madness.” Another excellent resource is the Preterist Podcast of DeeDee Warren, which I am largely indebted to for providing much of the substance I have on orthodox Preterism.

I hope this clarifies my position. Do note I am definitely not making a statement about the salvation of someone who holds to a dispensational position. I hope in turn that others will realize that my position is also not a salvation issue. Those of us who are orthodox Preterists hold to essential Christian doctrine.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Misquoting Jesus

What do I think of Ehrman’s work? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Misquoting Jesus is an accomplishment and a shame to the Christian church both. It is not a problem in that nothing here can be answered. Indeed, it can be and has been. It is not an accomplishment in that new ground has been broken in textual criticism. There is nothing new in here about textual criticism.

It is an accomplishment in that it is the first book on textual criticism to stay for so long on bestseller lists, in fact, as far as I know, to even make it on the bestseller lists. It is a shame in that the church should have been writing such works that would have been liked by the popular audience and bought by them.

Of course, Ehrman knows that controversy sells very well. One could easily imagine a book hitting the bestseller list with the title of “The sex life of Jesus” or something of that sorts. Books that attempt to bring something “new” to the discussion of Jesus, like the Da Vinci Code or today, Zealot, are all the rage in the public sphere.

Unfortunately, these new works have something in common amongst all of them. There is nothing new in them. They are simply old ideas that are being repackaged for new people who have never heard of them. Those who read Zealot will not normally read someone like Craig Evans in response. Those who read Dan Brown will not likely read Ben Witherington in response. Those who read Misquoting Jesus will not likely read Daniel Wallace in response.

To that, it must be said the Christian church should be doing better. It is a shame we have Rachel Held Evans, Joyce Meyer, and Joel Osteen being household names in the Christian community, but we don’t have people like Dan Wallace, Ben Witherington, and Craig Evans being household names. This is because of a lack of reading and real study on the part of the Christian church where we are just interested in making “good” people.

So to get to Ehrman’s book on textual criticism, we have the natural start at the beginning of most Ehrman books where he shares his personal testimony of his deconversion and how it started with a Damascus Road experience in his studies where he was told that maybe Mark made a mistake.

As Evans has pointed out in Fabricating Jesus, Ehrman’s response seems out of proportion to what happened, unless one considers that perhaps Ehrman had put too many of his eggs in the Inerrancy basket. (And some of you wonder why I make it a case to tell people not to marry Inerrancy to their Christianity.) Unfortunately, his understanding of Inerrancy was also a modern western style that would have been foreign to the biblical authors. It would be amusing to see if we could somehow get the reactions to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John today to what we say are contradictions amongst their gospels.

In Ehrman’s story, he had written a paper defending the claim of Jesus about who the high priest was in the time of David in Mark 2. His professor wrote on his paper “Maybe Mark just made a mistake.” That it had a lasting impact on Ehrman is easily shown in that it is mentioned in so many works of his. Yet this initial charge is invalid. See Daniel Wallace being interviewed by Lee Strobel in “The Case for the Real Jesus.” More on that here.

Still, to be fair, Ehrman does present much information in this book that is highly valuable. For instance, on page 18, Ehrman points out that books played virtually no role in polytheistic religions. The Christians were different. They were people of books, as were the Jews who preceded them.

On page 29, Ehrman gives a contrast on how central books were to the lives of the Christians. While Ehrman doesn’t say it, the reason is the NT books were to be those that had apostolicity, antiquity, and authority. Of course, with antiquity, in this case, one means within the lifetime of the apostles.

Ehrman also points out on page 59 that a writer could dictate word for word to a scribe or simply give the main ideas to a scribe or some combination thereof. Both would have been used in antiquity. Unfortunately, this is the kind of idea that also works against Ehrman’s claim in Forged (See here also) that some Pauline epistles were not by Paul since he could just as easily have used a secretary, just as he did in Romans, a letter that is not disputed to be Pauline at all. In fact, a footnote indicates he knows of a leading work on this, that of E. Randolph Richards, one that is not heavily interacted with in Forged.

Ehrman’s thesis is that sometimes when scribes copied texts, mistakes were made. No one would dispute this. The most conservative NT textual critic would recognize and affirm this. The question is, were those mistakes really monumental ones that threaten doctrine? The answer is no. Let’s give some basic examples.

For instance in Mark 1 where we are told that Jesus was either moved with compassion or moved with anger in response to a leper. If anger, does this change our view of Jesus? Not really. Jesus had already had anger in Mark 3 and if Jesus is the embodiment of the OT God, the Jews would have no problem with that since they had in their history experience the anger of God.

But why would Jesus be angry at a leper wanting to be healed?

Probably because the leper chose an inopportune time. Jesus was speaking and healing was a private affair that could have been done later and not drawn attention to Jesus. Instead, the leper came forward while Jesus is speaking before an audience. Result? Jesus heals the man, but now his doing a healing causes people to come after him for that reason rather than for the message itself.

Another example given is Matthew 24:36 where there is a listing of who knows the time of the coming of Christ and we are told that no man knows, not the angels, nor the Son, but only the Father. Some manuscripts we are told omit “nor the Son.”

It is a puzzle why this should be problematic. If it is only the Father who knows and the Son is not the Father, then it follows that the Son did not know. Not only that, if this was wanting to be omitted because it’s embarrassing, why not omit it also in Mark?

Of course, we can bring in discussion on such topics as the long ending of Mark and the story of the woman caught in adultery. That these passages catch some people off guard is a testimony to the fact that we are failing in educating our church. This gets even more problematic with 1 John 5:7 where someone will be prone to use this to deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses only to be caught into the world of textual criticism that they never even knew existed.

Ehrman’s case is nothing new. The problem with his case is as in many cases, he has really only given one side of the argument, and that is the side that is meant to frighten his audience. That a book like Ehrman’s will spark concern among readers is problematic. That we did not educate our church enough to avoid it sparking concern, is an indictment on us. We must do better.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Resurrecting Jesus

What do I think of Allison’s case? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Resurrecting Jesus is a book by Dale Allison that contrary to the title, only spends about half the book talking about the resurrection of Jesus. The rest of it is spent on various other topics. These others will be helpful to the student of the NT, but the main case is still the last half.

Allison does believe that Jesus did bodily rise from the dead, but he doesn’t think we can really make a strong case for it, at least certainly not as much as Habermas and Licona do. In fact, it can be a downside to Allison’s approach that he decides to list his personal reasons why he would want the resurrection to be true throughout.

Before really getting to that, I would also like to explain that reading Allison is a mixed bag. When he does great, it’s something really good that’s a helpful insight, but there are times that he seems to make a basic mistake that can make one wonder about how much some questions were really considered.

For instance, Allison tells about the passage where Jesus says to hate your father and mother several times, but it never seems to dawn on him that Jesus is making a comparison statement. He is telling us that in comparison to our devotion to Jesus, our other obligations, including family obligations, must be secondary.

Also, Allison in discussing the chapter on Hell says that it is hard to reconcile the view in Paul of salvation by faith and judgment by works. I find these quite easy to reconcile in fact. If you are in Christ, then you stake your identity in Him and His righteousness becomes yours. If you are not in Christ, then God can only judge you on one basis, your works. If those are not perfect, then they do not add up.

Moving to the resurrection, Allison’s desire to be humble could be getting in his way of really wanting to make a stand here or there. He does side with the resurrection being real, but it is in a sense reluctantly. Could it be that if he did not have any personal desire at all, which could be difficult to think about of course as none of us approach Jesus neutrally, then he would not want to make a stand?

This is not to say that there are no valid insights in Allison’s work. Allison has much on the nature of the body in Paul as well as the fact that we shouldn’t assume the disciples would be grieving after the death of Jesus. Could they not just as much be angry? After all, they’d followed this guy for around three years and now he’s been crucified and thus shown to be a fraud! They would have been shamed greatly in their society having put all that they had in the following of this one man who they had every reason to believe to be the Messiah.

I find this to be an excellent point as we usually in the introspective conscience of the West look at the people in the Bible and think that they would have thought just like us. In reality, they didn’t. Now of course, it could be the disciples were grieving but in reality, we just don’t know. We can safely say there was a change in their behavior by looking at how they preached afterwards in contrast to knowing that they could meet the exact same fate as their proclaimed Messiah.

Allison does state which sides he thinks are stronger, but at the same time doesn’t seem willing to really enforce it strongly as he has a “What if?” approach in that there are some things that could possibly be. Of course there are possibilities, but we’re interested in seeing actualities and what the evidence itself really has to say.

Thus, I recommend this one, but I don’t recommend it for beginners. I think it’s far better for those who have sharpened their skills some on other areas as Allison will give you a lot to work through and think about. While I wish he would make a stronger case, we can be thankful for the case that has been made.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Demon-Haunted World?

How is a Christian supposed to reply to the demonic? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

One of my good friends is Jeff Harshbarger, who wrote two books on the occult which include personal testimony of his involvement with demonic powers and how he came out and is now a Christian. He is now the head of his own ministry, Refuge Ministries, where he uses counseling to help people get out of the occult.

But here’s something I really like about Jeff. He’s someone who admits the reality of demons, but he’s not someone who sees demons every where and despite having personal experience in the past with demons, he warns Christians to not spend too much time thinking about demons and not to worry about them.

Now keep in mind in all of this, I am indeed affirming that yes, I do believe demonic activity is real. I’ve heard too many accounts from people who I know to be intelligent and reliable that are firsthand accounts that I cannot deny that it has happened. I also have of course, as a Christian, biblical testimony to the fact.

Yet we must approach this realistically. As C.S. Lewis said in the Screwtape Letters “There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”

I have written plenty of times about my problems with a materialist view of reality, so if you’re on that side, this blog is not written to argue against you. This blog is written to deal with the problem that Jeff sees as well, and that’s Christians having too much of a fascination with demonic activity.

In fact, these Christians in having this can often take a view of Scripture that I consider to be occult. Scripture is treated as if it was a magic book and if you say this passage, you will ward off any demons that are in your presence. Now do I deny that there is power in the truth of Scripture? Not at all. What I have a problem with is its careless usage without a proper understanding of what is going on in a text of Scripture.

For instance, how many times have I seen a Christian use the passage about “My word will not return to me void.” When saying it, these Christians take it to mean that if you cite a passage of Scripture, it will be used and it will come back with results. I don’t think this is a Christian view of Scripture but an occult one.

For one thing, the passage is about the pronouncements of God Himself and what He’s saying is “If I make a statement, you can be sure that I will deliver on it.” It does not mean that we are the ones who can always deliver on His statements. God is not obligated to do our bidding. We are obligated to do His.

Furthermore, we often see people misuse Scripture, such as the devil in the temptation of Jesus, groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, and of course groups like the Word of Faith community that think faith is a force whereby they can shape reality.

When we have this fixation on the occult, it will not keep us away from it, but will in fact draw us into it. Up and coming apologists. I make this warning to you. There are many areas in apologetics I try to at least have a basic knowledge of. This is not one of them! I have been warned by those much greater in the field than I and much more skilled NOT to even touch this stuff. In fact, they themselves don’t do it because the occult has such a drawing power. That’s why I leave it to people like Jeff.

We will also have undue fear in our lives of anything that could seem to be “occult” when we have this focus. I have interest in many activities that I’m sure a lot of Christians with this kind of fixation look at as occult. I play the Final Fantasy games regularly. (In fact, one of the songs played at our wedding was from Final Fantasy) I have every Harry Potter movie that there is and I’ve read all the books. I make it a point to know the difference between fantasy and reality.

Here’s something more important. I make it a point to know Scripture even better. It is in knowing the true God that I am supposed to be drawn to Him more and more. It can be good and helpful to have a good angelology and that includes knowing something about demons and any student of Scripture should know something about them, but that is as a metaphysical topic and not an occult topic and is not meant to be a fixation.

When we live in fear of everything around us and constant worry about the occult, we also have the sad condition of making ourselves look ridiculous to the world around us. Most of the world around us already thinks we’re crazy. We don’t really need to do anything to add to that.

Also, our culture has a fixation on end times. Most readers of this blog know that my view in end times is that of orthodox Preterism, but I’m happily married to a dispensationalist and I have several good friends who are dispensationalists.

If you want to be one, be one, but this is a problem I often warn against for dispensationalists. Make your fixation be Christ. Some are unfortunately so caught up in knowing the identity of antichrist that they do not pay as much attention to the identity of Christ, the one who they are to stake their whole identity in.

Now in all of this, there is no saying that Christians should be reckless, but do not let your Christian walk be defined by paranoia of anything that could have a negative reputation. Take the time to examine each issue and be settled in your own mind. If you disagree with your brother, feel free to make a case, but listen to his case back on why he doesn’t have a problem with what he does. It could be you’re wrong. It could be he is. Follow the admonition of Paul. Let each be convinced in his own mind.

And overall, remember to focus on God and His revelation in Christ. Christians are not to live their lives in fear, and that includes fear of the demons.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 8/10/2013 Craig Keener

What’s coming up on this Saturday’s episode of the Deeper Waters Podcast. Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I hope you will be listening this Saturday as we have a major guest in the area of NT scholarship that will be joining us. Craig Keener will be on the Deeper Waters Podcast and we’re going to be talking about his book Miracles.

Miracles is a book that should have a powerful effect on NT scholarship as it not only lays out a case for the possibility of miracles, by demolishing the so-called arguments that Hume put forward, but by then giving what is needed in order to have reasons to believe miracles have taken place, and that is documented evidence.

Where does this evidence come from? From a time of Keener traveling around the world and collecting miracle stories. There are a number of stories out there in fact that have medical documentation that come with them and can be verified. Not all of them can be, but Keener will also give a reason why he thinks a story is more likely to be historical than that it isn’t.

It is difficult to see how someone could walk away from a work like this without at least having it be a possibility that their approach is wrong. Most critiques of it I see seem to try to go after one miracle claim and say “Because of this not seeming accurate, the rest of the book is wrong.” It’s quite difficult to do with a book that’s over 800 pages long and has 300 pages or so of bibliography.

We’ll be discussing these cases from around the world and in fact, the lines are open so if you want to submit your own case or ask a question about a case, then we’ll be able to do that.

We also will discuss cases that go beyond healing hopefully. Keener has in his books accounts of events like weather phenomena and also accounts of demon possession and exorcism, a kind of activity that is often mocked over here but is treated quite seriously in other countries where the dark side of spirituality is a known reality.

Also will include miracles not necessarily in the faith tradition of many. For instance, if you are a Protestant, what are you to make of the healing that takes place through Catholic locations, such as at Lourdes. Does this extend to other religions? Can Christians accept accounts of healing in other religions? How would we go about verifying that a miracle has taken place.

And of course, we can discuss such objections as “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” and “Why don’t these happen when video cameras are present?” We can also discuss the relationship between prayer and miracles, all the while making sure we avoid a kind of Word of Faith understanding.

Friends. I am really excited about the show that is coming up this Saturday and it is an honor to have as excellent a guest as Craig Keener on. The show will air from 3-5 PM EST and the call in number if you want to interact with Dr. Keener is 714-242-5180. I hope to hear from you!

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters