Happy Fourth of July

We’re still going to break from our talk on the Trinity in honor of the Fourth of July. Now I don’t go political on here often, but I did spend this morning at a tea party. Unfortunately, it wasn’t as enjoyable as the last ones were and my friends and I didn’t stay too long. However, I am pleased about how free our country is. We can gather and protest against our government. Do we stop to realize that there are many nations where you would get executed for that? If you don’t agree with the message of the tea parties, fine. Agree with this however. It is a good thing that they have the freedom to express their opinion and they should not be persecuted by the government for doing such.

As I traveled, I took the transit system since it has a cheaper round trip than paying for parking elsewhere. I consider it a great freedom that I can get on a vehicle like that safely and that I didn’t have to see guards with machine guns around and didn’t have to be searched thoroughly to make sure I was safe. As I say that, I am not against searches in other areas. I have been pulled out of line at the airport and I’m grateful for that. Airplanes no doubt can be more dangerous than the transit system, but even then, you have great freedom on an airplane and most of us don’t fear for our lives from terrorists. (If we have fear, it’s usually more a fear of flying than anything else.)

I also saw walking through a parking lot today police officers deailng with an incident that seemed to involve trouble with automobiles. I considered that later today and thought of how great it is to be living in a nation where I do not have to live in fear when I see the police force and can be thankful that they’re out there securing my freedom. I am not having to duck in back alleys in order to avoid coming in contact with a representative of the law.

I gathered with the church this evening at a family’s house to celebrate the 4th with a picnic. I’m thankful we can assemble as friends together in this nation and get to celebrate that we truly are a free nation. Freedom is a great gift and those of us who live in America should be thankful that we live in what I truly believe is the greatest nation on Earth.

This morning, I was free to read my Bible and I will be free to this evening. All around the world, there are people who would give anything to get to have a copy of Scripture. Some can be arrested and thrown in jail or even killed for the practice of the Christian religion. I don’t have to hide in this nation. In fact, my church is open to all.

I am doing this blog. I have the freedom to do that. I have the freedom to evangelize. I can look on the net and read anything on religion that I want to. I could write a book and get it published and get to spread the message of the gospel that way. I can own books others have written. That is a great privilege.

We are free, and let us not forget that we are free because men and women throughout history have given their lives up for a greater cause. As we celebrate today, let us not forget their sacrifice. Let us honor those who did and those who are making that sacrifice today. Freedom is not free as it has been said. We have a great gift.

Also, those of us who are Christians have another gift, the freedom from the penalty of sin. As we are being sanctified, we are free from its power. When we reach glory, we will be free from its very presence. Men and women died for a great freedom. Christ died for the greatest freedom of all. Government can try to stop the spread of the message of that freedom, but they cannot stop that freedom. Let us rejoice about that.

Happy 4th of July everyone!

The Shack: A Review

We’re going to take a brief interruption tonight from our Trinity series to talk about the book, The Shack. This is one I’d been meaning to look at for awhile, but didn’t really have the motivation to buy it until I saw it used at a library for $3. I’d heard a lot about it and I wanted to get it for myself to see if it was true.

Unfortunately, it was, and what I’d heard wasn’t good.

The story is by William Paul Young. It involves a man named Mackenzie Allen Philips who has his 6 year-old daughter kidnapped and murdered by a serial killer. Mack, as he is often called throughout the book, blames himself and has great anger at God. One day he gets a note in his mailbox he believes is from God inviting him to “The Shack” which is where his daughter was murdered. His wife and kids go away for a weekend elsewhere leaving him free to go and meet God. Earlier on before the meeting however, we do have this set of lines which really sets the idea of where the book is going:

In seminary he had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course. God’s voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects.” (65-66)

Yes. Let’s not dare educate ourselves and let’s keep in mind that this is what education really teaches. Christians ate up a work that referred to reducing God’s voice to paper. I’ve argued before on this blog that the idea of hearing the voice of God as a normative practice is really a modern idea that has no basis in Scripture. Who cares though? We like it. The early church died for that paper. People risked their lives and several around the world would give anything to have that paper. Young’s work denigrates this paper. In fact, throughout this book, you will not see Scriptural references, most likely because this stuff can’t be backed Scripturally.

When he first meets “God”, the Father is actually an African-American woman who he keeps referring to as “Papa.” This should raise flags. Did anyone ever consider there could be a reason God is portrayed as male in Scripture most often and to mess with that is to mess with his revelation of himself? Now we should embrace all races, but let us not use God as the means to do that. God is neither white nor black. In fact, he couldn’t be since he is immaterial by nature. While he contains within his nature maleness or femaleness, he is neither exclusively one or the other.

Jesus is pictured as a guy who works  in jeans and a work shirt. While he is supposedly the most human of the three, all three together just continuously gush on and on about how much they simply love the other two.

The Holy Spirit is pictured as an Asian woman named Sarayu. The idea of each person being incarnate in this case seems to lead to tri-theism more than anything else. Now the author does claim to be Trinitarian, but his understanding of it is terrible. At one point, he will seem as if he is tri-theistic. Then you’ll look and he will be modalistic. If our author doesn’t have a good understanding of the Trinity, he shouldn’t write about it. If he does, he obviously didn’t display it.

The book also speaks about the religious stereotypes that Mack holds on page 93 which is why God appears to him as a woman. Why were Christians not concerned that the author speaks of the ideas the church has held for centuries and are found in Scripture and treats them as “religious stereotypes.”?

Page 95-96 has Mack noticing that “Papa” has scars on her wrists. (Yes. The book refers to Papa as her often.) She tells him that she and Jesus were on the cross together. This is actually a heresy known as patripassianism which said that God the Father suffered on the cross. To have that would be to bring the divine nature itself down to less than divine. It would be temporal and would be capable of suffering.

This doesn’t just extend to Papa. Papa tells Mack on page 99 that in Jesus, the Trinity entered into the world. Again, this is a part where the book sounds modalistic. If you want to know the author’s understanding of the Trinity, so do I. It cannot be told what it is from this book. I’m sure he wants to be orthodox, but the presentation is not.

On pages 99-100, Papa tells Mack that all that Jesus did, he did as a human being. He never used divine power to do anything. He just lived in full trust of God and thus was able to do the miracles that he did. That’s not the way the Bible presents it. Jesus, for instance, forgave sins, something that I can never do. Someone was healed just by touching Jesus’s cloak. Jesus’s signs were to point to his divine nature. The idea even then comes that if we fully trusted God, we would be doing all the miracles. This is where the author gets extremely close to the Word of Faith camp where the implication is that if we fully trusted God, we would be able to do the miracles that Jesus did.

Papa even says on page 100 that while he was limited in Jesus, he has never been limited in hismelf. It’s good that it was stated that God has never been limited in himself, but the Father was never limited in Jesus.

On page 101, Papa says that “we are not three gods, and we are not talking about one god with three attitudes, like a man who is a husband, father, and worker. I am one God and I am three persons and each of the three is fully and entirely the one.” But what is being said here? Is Jesus the Trinity? Each of the three persons in the Trinity partakes of the divine nature fully, but no one person of the Trinity is the divine nature and no one person of the Trinity is the Trinity. If you heard a rumble just now, it was the early church fathers who fought to give us orthodoxy rolling in their graves.

On page 106 when Mack is having a meal with “The Trinity” and they are asking him questions about his family, he asks them why if they already know to which Sarayu says “We have limited ourselves out of respect for you. We are not bringing to mind, as it were, our knowledge of your children. As we are listening to you, it as if this is the first time we have known about them, and we take great delight in seeing them through your eyes.”

Young has lowered deity thinking that that is something that would comfort humanity. When I talk about the people I love the most in my life, I don’t want God to see them the way I see them. I want him to see them the way he sees them. God doesn’t need to limit himself to take joy and delight in things. Don’t forget also of the problem of God personally limiting his knowledge. A Christian teacher of the past was once credited with the orthodox saying of “If God ever stopped thinking about me he would cease to exist as God.” God cannot stop thinking about you because he is omniscient. You are always on his mind. That truth is far more comforting than what Young has said. I have no problem with writing to comfort Christians, but let’s do so with truth, not with error.

On page 120, Papa says “I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring you from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.”

Kind of makes you wonder what was going on with Sodom and Gomorrah then.

Contrary to Young, God does punish sin. Why? It is contradictory to his nature and he cannot overlook that which is in direct opposition to him. Now I would say God does delight in forgiving sin and he does not delight in the death of the wicked, but he does punish sin. He never says it is itsown punishment. I believe he did take part in what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.

On page 122, Papa complains about institutions having someone in charge including marriage and what a waste it is. This is contrary to what Scripture says where in Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and 1 Peter 3, we are told that a man is to lead his household. Paul made sure churches had elders in authority to help others. The God of The Shack may not like authority on Earth, but apparently the Bible doesn’t have a problem with it.

On page 145, Jesus tells Mack about the submission within the Trinity. Now I have no problem with the Son submitting to the Father and the Spirit to both as I believe that happened when the Son became incarnate and the Spirit was sent at Pentecost, but Jesus presents this as a mutual submission of all to each other in the Godhead and then tells Mack “We are submitted to you in the same way.” The God I know has never been submitted to me. He may do things for me, as he has and will, but he does not serve me. I am his servant. He is not mine.

On page 149, Jesus tells Mack that his life was not meant to be an example to copy. Now in some ways, we cannot copy Jesus. We cannot cleanse out the temple as God. However, we can copy him in several ways and Paul noticed this and told churches to imitate him as he imitated Christ. John tells us that the one who abides in Christ ought to walk as Jesus walked. (1 John 2:6) Once again, Scripture or The Shack. Which am I to believe?

In the chapter after the one that comes from, Jesus goes to meet Sophia, who is God’s Wisdom. Now in my thinking, Wisdom is actually Jesus, but obviously Young does not think so. He doesn’t explain Wisdom well however. She seems to be deity in this encounter, but yet a person of the Trinity,  but still Jesus does say she is the wisdom of God so she must be eternal. She is also a person so what is it? We don’t know. Young never clears it up.

On page 159 we hear Sophia say “Judging requires that you think yourself superior over the one you judge.” That sounds really good to hear to some Christians who treat judgment like it’s a dirty word. It’s entirely unbiblical. Jesus told us to make a right judgment in John 7:24. All people judge and you cannot avoid judging. Young wants us to judge his account as accurate I’m sure. (Which I don’t.) I have met too many Christians who want to throw out all judging as evil and too many atheists that have been quick to throw out Matthew 7:1 when I condemn an action as immoral as if Jesus was obviously telling us not to call evil evil.

On page 164 in talking about creating, Sophia tells Mack that God doesn’t stop a lot of things that cause him pain. This goes against the impassibility of God and frankly, a God who suffers pain is not the God we want. This God is temporal and can act then just to avoid his own pain. A God who is unaffected by pain can go with us whereever we are and will seek our own good without being moved by emotions. He acts on truth.

On page 179, Jesus talks about how he doesn’t create institutions like the church. He just cares about relationship, a concept that would actually be foreign to the ancient world. He condemns religion, politics, and economics. Religion however is the worship of God and there is no harm in calling Christianity a religion. We should. It’s not a dirty word. Politics refers to a system of governing. Is Jesus against that? How would that mesh with Romans 13? What of economics? Economics is the understanding of scarcity and demand? Does Jesus have a problem with my buying groceries as that involves economics? There is no explanation of this from Young. What would it mean if we embraced his system?

On page 182, Jesus says those who love him come from all systems. They can be Baptists, Republicans, Mormons, Buddhists, etc. He says he has no desire to make them Christian, but he does desire to make them into sons and daughters of Papa, into his brothers and sisters. Of course, he quickly adds that he’s not saying that all roads lead to him. While there is no problem with saying God will go to meet anyone on the path they’re on, which he does say, there is a problem with saying he will leave them there. Yes. God does desire to make them Christian because the term Christian means one who is a follower of Christ who trusts him for salvation. Maybe Young just doesn’t want to use the word because of his view of religion, but his presentation is less than ideal.

On page 192, Papa talks about Jesus and says “He is the very center of our purpose and in him we are now fully human, so our purpose and your destiny are forever linked.” The “Papa” I see in Scripture is never fully human and the Trinity did not become human in Jesus. John 1:14 tells us that the Word became flesh. We never hear that the God he was with did.

We also read on that page that through Jesus God is now reconciled to the world. Not at all. Now the path of reconciliation is open to all because of Jesus, but not all have accepted. Now Young does say that this is a two-way street, but once again, he really isn’t speaking good theology here. Some have excused this as just a work of fiction he wrote for his kids. It doesn’t matter. When he decided to send it to publish, he knew what was in it and frankly, if I was teaching my kids theology, I’d especially want to make sure it was right.

On page 197, we are told the Bible doesn’t teach you to follow rules. Now if they mean for salvation, that’s correct. Rules can’t get you salvation. It does speak of these things called “Commandments” however. Young seems to have this reaction to any kind of terminology he thinks is religious and wants to avoid it altogether. He only ends up with a feel-good religion that is incapable of showing the glory of who God is. It only focuses on what he can do for man.

On page 203, Sarayu tells Mack that “In Jesus, you are not under any law. All things are lawful.” Yet when Paul says that, he is most likely quoting his opponents and dealing with what they said and he didn’t approve. We are under the law of Christ. (1 Cor. 9:21) We cannot do anything we want. We are free to do as we ought. Once again, I can either believe Scripture or I can believe The Shack.

On page 204, we are given this odd sentence that nouns exist because there is a created universe and physical reality. Now I know God is eternally active, but he is an eternal being as well and you can speak of God as a noun. How would Young respond to that?

We are also told that we won’t find the word responsibility in the Scriptures. If you do not, you will still find the concept. There are things you are to do in a relationship as much as Young does not like that idea. In fact, we are told God does not give us a responsibility. We are under no obligation to him, because apparently that would be a dirty term.

When Sarayu describes this she says that we are free to respond in love and “Because I am your ability to respond,  I have to be present in you.” (205) I have no problem saying the Holy Spirit gives us the ability to respond to God. (Calvinists and Arminians work that out amongst yourselves.) I think both sides of the camp I just mentioned would have a problem with saying the Holy Spirit is that ability. The Spirit is a person. He is not an ability.

On page 206, we are told that we are never disappointing to God. After all, God does not have any expectations of us or responsibilities for us so how can he be disappointed in us, yet the Scriptures tell us that he does have responsibilities and expectations. We are to walk as Jesus walked and be holy.

Sarayu also condemns living by priorities. Now while the other persons of the Trinity say that God should be at the center of all of our lives and not just the biggest portion, that means God must be a priority. The greatest commandment is to love him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

On page 223, Papa says that he (He has turned into a man at this point) does not do humiliation, guilt, or condemnation. This is again a far cry from the God of Scripture who does bring about shame on those who go against him, does speak of their guilt, and does condemn them when they die apart from him.

On page 236-7, Mack is getting ready to leave and finds that “God” has already packed everything in his car. Mack laughs about the thought of God the servant and then says, “It is more truly God, my servant.” I can imagine the Word of Faith camp cheering in delight at this. Because God does things for us, that does not mean that he is truly our servant. It means he is acting out of grace. John 15:20 tells us that no servant is greater than his master.What does that say about the god of Young?

As for the Problem of Evil which this is supposed to address, I cannot point to a convincing argument in the book against it. I see it instead as designed to bring about emotions. Too often today, Christians seem to like something not because it is true but because it feels good and based on that, they say it is true. I am concerned greatly about the way this book has been so widely received when there are so many statements that are anti-biblical on essential matters. There are books that are popular out there in Christian circles that I disagree with, but they are not heretical. This one I say is. If you want something comforting, it is what the author does not give. It is truth. Come to see God as he truly is and the more you see it, the more comforting it is. We can try to bring God to our level, but we will no longer have a god who can truly help us in our distress then. Good theology is not only true, but it is also comforting. Not only that, it is entirely orthodox. You can worship the true God and get comfort.

Final conclusion? I suggest avoiding The Shack. It is time for the church to rise up and return to the triune God that is revealed in Scripture and not be moved by emotions and feelings. If books like this stay popular, I don’t think the church in America will last long. Let’s change that.

Jesus Before Pilate

We’re going through the New Testament right now and trying to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. We’re in the gospel of John and tonight, we’re going to wrap up the 18th chapter. We’ll be starting at verse 33 and going through verse 40 as we see what happens in John’s gospel when Jesus is on trial before Pilate.

33Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

34“Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

35“Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

36Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

37“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

38“What is truth?” Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”

40They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in a rebellion.

Jesus is a most intriguing character in this dialogue. Ravi Zacharias has read a poem about this event and how while supposedly Jesus was the one being questioned, it seems more often that Pilate is the one who is on trial. Jesus does not beg. He does not plead. He does not admit anything wrong. He does not bribe. He simply states the facts.

Jesus wants Pilate to really see who he is in all of this. He is confronting Pilate with the questions and seeing what he really believes. Is he going to get his information about him solely from his opponents, or is he going to be willing to hear from Jesus himself who he is.

It also depends on what kind of king Jesus is being said to be. Is he a rival to Caesar? No. Is he the true king of Israel? Yes. However, it is not his people that have handed Jesus over. Those who have rejected him are not his people. He does have people, such as the apostles, but his goal at this time is not to set up a government on Earth in a theocracy. His goal is to bring about God’s kingdom which is not a political reign at this point at least, but is rather the reign of YHWH over the hearts of men.

Jesus does say the reason he came is to set up this kingdom. For Jesus, those who are on the side of truth truly listen to him. The reason the Jews are not listening then is simple. They are not on the side of truth.

Pilate asks “What is truth?” and walks away. If only he had stayed for the conversation! How much we would love to have seen the answer Jesus would have given. However, we can easily guess what it would have been. He would have pointed to himself. Pilate was on trial before truth.

The account with Pilate ends here, as does our blog for tonight. Tomorrow, we shall continue in this gospel.

The Guards Fall Down

Tonight we’re moving on to chapter 18 of the Gospel of John. I’ll go on and let you all know that I will not be covering in the Passion narrative aspects that were covered in the other gospel accounts. I have no desire to repeat myself. We will be covering what is unique to John in the passion. Tonight, we’re going to be in John 18: 1-9. Let’s look at the verses:

1When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was an olive grove, and he and his disciples went into it.2Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

4Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

5“Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.

“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

7Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”
And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”

8“I told you that I am he,” Jesus answered. “If you are looking for me, then let these men go.” 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me.”

The arrest of Jesus is only covered this way in the gospel of John and our focus will be on the central part where the soldiers fall back. The reason given is that of Jesus’s unique presence, however, we find it interesting that Jesus says “I am.”

While I would agree that there was something unusual in Jesus being defiant and commanding in the face of opposition, I do not believe that that is all that was going on at that point. I believe he was really making a statement of who he is and was using the I AM to do that and the power and authority in that name somehow caused the soldiers that came to fall back.

Jesus’s authority throughout all of this is incredible. While he is the one who is being arrested. He is also the one who is calling the shots. He is able to speak to the Roman authorities and tell them that he is the one that they have come for and since that is the case, they ought to let the others go.

One question I do wonder about and I don’t think the text addresses is how Judas exactly responded to this. We know what happened ultimately from Luke in Acts and from Matthew, but what happened at this point we do not.

In conclusion, while it is not the most powerful case that is presented for the deity of Christ, I do believe John was wishing to convey that here. I do not believe the mention of an “I AM” was a coincidence.

And For Us

We’re going through the New Testament wanting to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. Right now, we’re in John 17 looking at the high priestly prayer of Jesus. Tonight, we shall be finishing up this prayer. Last night, we looked at how Jesus prayed specifically for the apostles. Tonight, we’ll see what he prayed for us, those who would hear through the message of the apostles. The following is John 17:20-26:

20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

Anti-Trintiarians often point to verse 21 when John 10:30 is cited and ask “Well are we to be one as the Father and Son are one?” Let’s look at what’s being asked. There is a prayer for some type of oneness. What do we have in the Trinity. We have the Father and the Son in one another doing their works together in perfect unity. By analogy, we are to be in the Father and the Son in that we are also doing the work of God in evangelism. The analogy depends on the Trinity. Just as when we are to show the love of God, which we cannot literally show as it is infinite, but we are to show love like it.

Also, Jesus says that he has given us glory. This is something that we should be astounded by. We often think of how we do ministry for the glory of God, and indeed we should, but God also glorifies those who believe in him.

Unity is something that Christ desires as well. That’s one reason that here at Deeper Waters, we try to focus only on what unites us. Now this doesn’t mean all Christians are to walk in lock-step, but if we are to divide from someone, let it be that it is because they are not a Christian brother or sister. We should agree to disagree and still celebrate our union in Christ. Consider this. We’re going to be a unity in Heaven forever. We might as well get used to it now.

Why does Christ want this for us? He wants them to see the glory of God. Seeing the glory of God is for our good. That glory will shape us to be who we were meant to be. In theological circles, this is known as the beatific vision. We also once again see the glory that was there before the creation of the world. Christ again points to his deity.

Christ has made known to the world that he is sent from the Father and he is going to continue to do so. How? Through the work of the church. The church is to spread the love of God throughout the world and where the love of God is, there is the Father and the Son and the Spirit, and Christ is present.

Tomorrow, we shall move on to the next chapter.

For The Apostles

Welcome everyone. I’ve had an interesting weekend coming into contact with two old friends from the net who I hadn’t spoken to in a long time. It’s amazing how the internet brings across people from space and time. As I sit here typing, I am hatting with a friend in WA, a friend in Denmark, and a friend in CA. You are reading this blog from who knows where right now. Isn’t it amazing? What hath God wrought?

We’re going to keep going through the high priestly prayer of Jesus tonight as we study the doctrine of the Trinity. We’re going to be looking at John 17:6-19 tonight.

6“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

We’re going to break this down more into the ideas and no, I am again not going to get into the predestination debate. That’s for you all to work out amongst yourselves. I wish to speak more on what we agree on than what we do not.

I find it amazing that Jesus did these things so that the apostles could know he came from God. I’m in a debate with a Mormon now on how anything can be known. Christ did not want people to just hope that he is the way. He wanted them to know that he is the way. He wanted them to know who he was and how he related to the Father. (And relates.)

Jesus prays for them now and not the world, to which it’s okay to pray for specific people sometimes at the exclusion of the world. Jesus prays for their well-being and since they are his and all the Son has is the Father’s, he is leaving them in the hands of the Father. He will not be in the world, but he asks that the Father take care of them.

Also note that Jesus wants them to have the full measure of his joy. Joy seems to be lacking in our churches today. We are often bound up with legalism or else we can go and think it’s all emotion. I like how Dr. Gary Habermas has spoken of how we don’t praise really loudly in church because, as he says in a whisper, “Somebody might think we’re charismatic!”

Of course, nothing against charismatics, but I think those of us that aren’t should realize we’re supposed to live joyful lives regardless of how we express them. It is possible to have joy and in some ways be silent about it.

However, while Jesus realizes we are hated, his prayer is not that we be removed from the world. His prayer is that we be protected in it. We are to be salt and light in the world and in order to be that, we need to be here.

What is his last prayer? Our sanctification. Christ wants us to live holy lives. We should all be honest and admit that it’s a struggle. I’m a single guy and I know the pressure of especially keeping one’s thought life pure. It’s a battle, but Christ desires it for us and as we saw earlier, it’s for our joy.

Glory Before The World

Welcome back to Deeper Waters as we continue our look at the doctrine of the Trinity. First, our thanks to Fred for his compliment on our most recent blog. I advise everyone to go to his website as well. Tonight, we’re going to be continuing through the high priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17 and looking at verses 4-5:

4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

As Jesus prays to the Father, he says that his work has brought the Father glory as he has completed the work that he was to do. Of course, the cross is not done at this point, but for now, Jesus has done everything and the final role is about to be played.

Consider this with the idea of Jesus being the new Israel and the second Adam. Where Adam and Israel failed, Jesus has succeeded. Adam, our first representative, gave in to the temptation to go his own way which led to the way the world is today. Meanwhile, Israel was to be a kingdom of priests and show the nature of the God they served, but they repeatedly failed to do this.

Christ has succeeded and he is the only one who could have looked back at his life and said that everything that he did brought the Father glory. This should be humbling for us if we look back on our own lives and realize how many times then and how many times today we do not bring the Father glory.

Jesus now asks for glory again. We again see a mention of the pre-existence of Jesus. Jesus had this glory before the world began. Before there was time, before there was anything else, when there was only the joy of the Trinity, there was, of course, Jesus sharing the glory of the Father and the Spirit.

As we have said, the Jew at the time would have thought of Isaiah 42:8 and how God would not share his glory with another, yet here Jesus points to the time before creation when he had the glory just as the Father did and how he is asking for that again. The only way he could have the glory of God is if he is fully God by nature.

Jesus also asks for that glory now in the presence of the Father. But Jesus is getting ready to go to the cross…. Yes. Jesus is going to the cross and while that is seen as a tool of shame by the Jews and the Romans, and indeed it was, Jesus realizes that the glory of the plan of salvation is going to take place there. He is going to be in the presence of the Father as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world and he is asking for that glory. Let the wisdom of God be seen in what happens.

From here, Jesus’s prayer will turn to other subjects, which we shall examine tomorrow.

The One True God

Hello everyone. Here at Deeper Waters, we’ve been going through the Bible wanting to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. Tonight, we’re going to be continuing our look at John 17 which is known as the high priestly prayer. We’re going to be examining one verse tonight, John 17:3.

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

If you’ve ever had an encounter with Jehovah’s Witnesses, you’ll know that this is the verse that they pride themselves on. I don’t know how many Arians I’ve met that have used this verse and believed that quoting John 17:3 sealed the deal. I suggest before reading further you think back to the beginning of our study where I remarked on errors that are made by opponents of the Trinity even before they come to the text. If you need to  look back, go ahead and do so.

Let us look at it this way:

Jesus is praying to the Father.

The Father is the only true God.

Therefore, Jesus cannot be the only true God.

There is a fault in the reasoning in this thinking in that it assumes that the only true God is one person. Therefore, the Arian reads the passage and sees that the Father is the only true God. Since the only true God is one person, Jesus is out.

This passage does not say that. Now if unipersonalism is correct, then their conclusion would follow. However, unipersonalism must be brought to this passage. It cannot be read into this passage. A legitimate question to ask would be “If the Father is the only true God, and if Jesus is a god (As JW’s claim), then does that mean that since there is only one true God, that Jesus would be a false god?”

It is my contention that the Father could say to the Son the same. The creeds speak of true God out of true God. Of course, none of the persons of the Trinity make-up the entirety of the Godhead, but each of them can be referred to as true God.

It is important to note that Jesus is tied into this. Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. He is the one who comes from the Father and bears the unique relationship with him in that he has first come from him as we saw in John 1:18, and he is now seen as having been sent from him. We know from the earlier passages that he will return to him.

Also important is to speak of the idea of eternal life. Knowing God is tied in together with knowing Jesus Christ. The only way you can know the Father is if you know the Son. If you deny the Son, you deny the Father. To deny the eternality of the Son is to deny the etrernality of the Father. He never became the Father. He has always been the Father just as the Son has always been the Son. We have life by being in right relation to him, by knowing him.

We shall continue looking at the rest of the text tomorrow, but for now, the Arian must back the assumption of unipersonalism.

Now Is The Time

Hello everyone. I’m certainly thankful to be able to post tonight. When I came home this evening, we were having server problems which left me wondering if I’d be able to blog or not. Fortunately, as you can see, we got reconnected so the blog will continue.

Tonight, we’re going to be continuing our study of the Trinity and we’ll be in John 17. This has been called the high priestly prayer of Jesus where we see more of a rich dynamic between the Father and the Son as we see Jesus’s longest prayer recorded in the gospels. We’ll be in verses 1-2 tonight.

1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

Jesus looked toward Heaven. Now I don’t think we should take this as realizing some sort of ideal posture. This was one that was highly acceptable and it’s noteworthy that the tax collector who prayed “Lord have mercy on me, a sinner” would not look to Heaven. I bring it up simply to say we should not be legalistic about prayer postures.

Jesus refers to God as “Father.” This is a term that will show up often in this prayer and expresses the unique relationship the Father and the Son have with each other, a theme we will see as we get closer to the end of this gospel in a verse Arians and others have used to argue against the Trinity. We will see when we get there that the verse shows the exact opposite.

Jesus asks the Father to glorify him, an idea we should consider the meaning of with a passage like Isaiah 42:8 being known to the apostles. The purpose of course is so the Son can glorify the Father. Only if the Son receives the glory can the Father receive that glory. What glory would be given?

It would be the glory that would come about by showing the victory of God over satan and the forces of evil. By conquering sin on the cross, Christ is showing that God is ruler and sovereign over all. Not even sin and death can stand in the way of the plan of God. God is shown to be glorious in both forgiving sinners and in punishing evil.

Jesus has been granted authority. Does this go against his deity? Again, the question we must ask is “How?” This is the same position of those who confuse function with essence and assert that if the Son submits to the Father in anything then he cannot be of the same nature as the Father? Anyone who has an earthly father, which I believe would include all of us, who they submit to or have ever submitted to should see the faultiness of this position.

Finally, we see the goal of all of this. Eternal life for all who trust in Christ. We only have eternal life however by being united to Christ. Apart from him, we have not the life that we were meant to have.

Tomorrow, we shall continue looking at this high priestly prayer.

He Has Overcome The World

Hello everyone. We’re going through the New Testament trying to come to a deeper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. Tonight, we’re going to be looking at who Jesus is in his final words wrapping up the Upper Room Discourse in John 16. We’ll be going through a long passage tonight of verses 25-33:

25“Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. 26In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. 28I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

29Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

31“You believe at last!” Jesus answered. 32“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

33“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

Jesus tells them that he has been speaking to them in parables. There will come a time when he will not do so. There will be a point when he will speak clearly. When that point is reached, they will understand the truth about himself and the Father.  They will ask the Father in the name of Jesus. They will be loved because they have loved the Son.

Jesus then tells them that he has left the world and is going back to the Father. He has almost finished his ministry and the time has come for him to go and return to the one who sent him. It is at this point that the disciples get in their reply.

The disciples seem confident, but it could be that they still did not really know. After all, had they really trusted in the death and resurrection of Jesus, they would have not acted the way that they did at the resurrection. John is a writer who uses a lot of irony and it is quite likely that he is doing such again.

Jesus says that they do believe, but they will not act accordingly. They will instead each run to his own home. We Christians should take comfort that Christ knows our failures in advance. It is here that he gives one of the passages that has been a great hope to Christians throughout the ages. Christ has overcome the world.

Today, we should embrace that. Facing the worst situation of all, the apostles were told to have hope. Christ has overcome the world. That victory is still here today. We as Christians need to remember that greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world.