Month: August 2013

Book Plunge: What’s In The Word?

What do I think of Ben Witherington’s Book? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

“What’s In The Word?” is a short approach for laymen to starting to understand what is going on in socio-rhetorical looks at the NT. Ben Witherington is most certainly an authority in this field having spent decades studying it and having written numerous commentaries on books of the NT along the lines of this view point.

What is it? It’s looking at the NT in its social setting and seeing the writings for their strong rhetorical value realizing they are in many ways, oral writings. These were not meant to be read privately and silently as we often do today, but meant to be read publicly and quite likely, by someone who knew how to read them the way the author wanted them to be read.

This kind of look has serious ramifications for how we approach the NT. Witherington shows us that the writers of the text took from the social background of their time, including the use of rhetoric, and wrote their information in a style to be engaging with the audience and draw their attention and form a powerful argument.

This also has an impact on the idea of forgery. For someone to do a good forgery they would have to know how to write to a specific audience concerning a specific problem and do so in a way while avoiding the audience knowing who they really are. Witherington considers this possibility highly unlikely in the light of socio-rhetorical studies. Of course, he knows that this did happen in the ancient world, but many of these writings were general treatises and not dealing with specific situations by specific people. He notes also that there is no knowledge we have of “schools of Paul and James” where someone would learn to write in their style to honor them like one would write in the style of Pythagoras.

Witherington also deals with biblical passages that are highly misunderstood. For one example, consider Galatians 3:28. Is this a passage saying that there are no distinctions in Christ whatsoever? No. We are all in Christ and we are all still male or female, but that does not change that we all have the same entry to Christ. Note also there is something much greater going on.

Paul is writing in a situation that is all about making distinctions, such as between Jew and Gentile and what one must do to be seen as in the covenant. If there is no Jew or Gentile, then this would mean that Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be saved. This becomes about a whole lot more than just all of us realizing we’re equal. This is about breaking down the boundaries that had always separated Jews and Gentiles, something quite monumental.

Also, readers who get this book will get a good basic education on the importance of oral tradition and how it impacted the world of the time and the role of memorization in it. This is an important subject we have to grasp as it is a constant refrain of the opponents of Christianity.

In conclusion, I highly endorse this work as giving an important outlook on the socio-rhetorical world at the time and think that for the person who is wanting to get a start in looking at this world, then Ben Witherington’s book is an excellent way to go.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 8/17/2013: The Mormon Research Ministry

What’s coming up Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters!

There you are sitting at home perhaps enjoying reading a novel or one of your favorite TV programs (Yes, it’s always during your favorite TV program) when there’s a knock at your door. You look out the peephole and see these two nice looking gentlemen in white shirts with black name tags on that identify them as elders from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

That’s right. The Mormons.

Who are these people? Well, there are few that will dispute that Mormons are some of the nicest people that they meet and they seem to be sincere and they say they believe in Jesus, so surely we should count them as Christians. Right?

Or maybe not.

Not according to my guest this Saturday, Bill McKeever, who runs the Mormon Research Ministry. Bill has spent decades studying Mormonism and when it comes to those who want to read the best critiques of the Mormon worldview, I point them to the Mormon Research Ministry.

If you think that the Mormons are just another branch of orthodox Christianity, I hope you’ll be listening to this show. There are many beliefs that many Christians don’t realize that Mormons have. In fact, it could even be that there are many beliefs held in orthodox Mormonism that many Mormons don’t know are held to.

Naturally, something that must be discussed is the story of how Mormonism came to be. What is it that really happened to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism? Is he really the kind of person that we can trust? Did he have any aspects to him that could cause us to be suspicious of him? Are the charges true that he practiced polygamy? Did he raise up his own army? Important for us Christians, since he claimed to have visions, what makes him different from someone like the apostle Paul?

What about the Book of Mormon? Is it really a testimony to events that happened here in the Americas several centuries ago? Has it been handed down reliably? Is there anything to the charge that racism existed in the original BOM?

We can also discuss what about Mormonism and their views on God and Jesus. Do they believe just what Christians believe about both, or do they hold to views such as the idea that God was once a man as we are and became God through eternal progression? Is Jesus really the spirit-brother of Lucifer?

And of course, a great one to discuss is McKeever’s point about the impossible gospel of Mormonism. What must a Mormon do to be saved and if they go that route, is it really going to be possible for them to be saved?

I hope you’ll join me for this episode to learn much about this group that could well be on its way to being the next world religion. The show time is 3-5 EST on Saturday, August 17th. My guest is Bill McKeever, and the call-in number is 714-242-5180.

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Some Questions Concerning My Preterism

Why do I hold to the eschatological view that I do? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I normally don’t write about secondary issues, but eschatology is one subject in this category I do enjoy and I also think it has direct apologetic relevance, such as when asked about if Jesus got wrong the time of His coming. Last night at an apologetics meeting, a loyal reader of the blog asked if I would write about this again. This got us into a conversation that our group leader soon joined in on. I’d like to take some comments and questions from that discussion and present them here to explain my position.

“Are you a true Preterist?”

Yes. I am certainly not a false one. I am a true one in the sense that I hold to what Preterism really teaches. I hold to the Olivet Discourse being fulfilled and to the fact that Jesus did have his coming to his throne in 70 A.D. as shown in the destruction of Jerusalem and that one day He will return to meet the living and raise the dead, those who have done good to a life of eternal joy, and those who have done evil to a life of eternal torment. (Note. Some Preterists would hold to a position of annihilationism.)

“Where do you depart from the Preterism that says everything has been fulfilled?”

This has it backwards. It is not the case that my belief is a departure from that viewpoint. It is that their viewpoint is a departure from not only mine, but from the historic Christian faith, that has held to the fact of the bodily return of Jesus just as much as the bodily resurrection and the final judgment. Believing in these events is one of the core doctrines of Christianity and a statement of eschatology upheld in the creeds of the historic Christian church.

“Do you think when Jesus returns He’ll become the King of the Jews?”

Not at all! You might as well ask if I’ll become human on my birthday next month. How could I? I am already human. In the same way, Jesus is already the King of the Jews. He is the King of everyone. He’s the King of this universe entirely and just because someone does not recognize that does not make Him any less Lord. Caesar was not Lord in the Roman Empire because of popular vote or personal choice. Caesar was Lord because he ruled. Christ is Lord because He rules as well.

“When will Christ return?”

Beats me. We don’t make those kinds of predictions. My thinking is that it will happen when the world has been evangelized and more and more people have come to the gospel. That is my guess from Scripture, but that cannot be put in a time frame. I do note that 2 Peter 3 says we can speed His coming and I think this is through the work of evangelism. Do you want Jesus to return soon? Don’t go trying to make a red heifer or set up a temple in Jerusalem! Do evangelism! You know, that thing that he’s already commanded us to do anyway!

“What about all the work to build a temple in Jerusalem?”

What about it? People are doing it, but it’s an exercise in futility. Want to see the real temple of God? Go look in the mirror! Paul told us while the old temple was still standing that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God dwells in us. To return to a temple is to return to a system that has been abandoned.

“What about the land promise to Abraham?”

What about it? The promise was set in place until the one through whom it was meant for. That is Jesus. Jesus has come. Because of that, the covenant is done and we are in the new covenant. Why return to the old? In fact, those who are in Christ, the true children of Abraham, are told that they will not just inherit a piece of land, but will in fact inherit the whole world!

Furthermore, when we look at the NT evidence, even a Levite named Joseph, also called Barnabas, sold his land in Acts 4. Why would a Levite sell the promised inheritance? Probably because he understood that it was not going to be worth anything. Jesus was going to judge the place soon and the old system was done. In fact, if you want to see that this is what the early church was teaching, just look at Acts 6:14.

“So you don’t see any connection with prophecy and what’s going on in the newspaper today?”

Nope. Not a bit. There have been several “prophecy experts” throughout the years. Here’s something they all had in common. They were all wrong! Every one of them! So if I’m approaching a group that has a track record of always being wrong, why should I listen to them? We make a point that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have always been wrong about prophecy, but then we ignore the most popular teachers today that are always wrong about prophecy and want to say “Yes. Well that was that generation, this generation is the one!”

Something that’s been said by most every generation.

“What about the evil in the world? How can you say Christ is King now?”

Again, what about it? Christ on this Earth said that if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the Kingdom of God is among you. Thus, Jesus was bringing the Kingdom in their very midst and yet there was the devil right there at work. In fact, we could say the devil was the most active during that time.

Also, look at Psalm 110, one of the most important chapters for studying eschatology in the Bible. “The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” Please observe that. Jesus is sitting at the right hand, a place of rule, UNTIL His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. It does not say He will sit there when His enemies are made a footstool. Jesus is at the right hand right now. What does that mean? It means He reigns right now!

“Don’t you know that there were worse things that could happen than what the Jews under went in 70 A.D.? A nuclear holocaust would be much worse!”

This is problematic in that it’s saying “If you can think of anything worse than the destruction that happened then, then you haven’t thought about the worst tribulation. Okay. Then should we reject that in Revelation itself if taken as futurist? After all, we have passages that talk about, say, 7,000 being killed. Make it 70,000. That’s worse. What about if 1/3 of the Earth is killed? Okay. Make it 1/2. That’s worse.

I also always ask if Solomon was the wisest king who ever lived. He was promised that in 1 Kings 3. Does this mean Solomon was wiser than Jesus? We are told about how Hezekiah was the most righteous king who had a Passover unlike any before. We are told none after him or before him were like him in 2 Kings 18:5.

We’re also told the same thing about the righteousness of Josiah in 2 Kings 23:25.

So not only was the author foolish enough to contradict himself in such a short time, but apparently, both of these kings were more righteous than Jesus!

The language is clearly hyperbolic. Just look at old destructions. What about the flood? What about Sodom? What about the plagues on Egypt? All that is being said is a superlative, much like Nebuchadnezzar being called King of Kings. That’s how people did superlatives back then.

“I can’t accept everything as hyperbole.”

Nor am I asking you to! The idea is that Preterists allegorize and make the text hyperbolic. The reality is we ALL know there are allegories and hyperbolic statements in Scripture. Despite what is being said by some, Jesus does not really want you to HATE your parents. He instead wants you to realize that compared to Him, your devotion to your family must be secondary.

We also know that there are allegories, yet I don’t know a single Preterist who would say everything in the Bible is allegorical or everything in the Bible is hyperbolic. Instead, we simply try to study the Scripture to find what the original author wanted us to get. In fact, we hold our position because there are some indicators that we indeed think should be taken literally.

These are timing indicators. Before entering the apocalyptic mode of Revelation, we are told that these things will take place soon. In Matthew 24, we are told that this generation will not pass away. If you look through all of Matthew, every reference to “This generation” refers to the generation that Jesus interacted with. Am I supposed to think that the meaning suddenly changes when it reaches its grand finale in the greatest generation claim of all?

“I just don’t see it.”

In reality, I totally understand this one! I think most Preterists would in fact! I used to be a pre-trib, pre-mill dispensationalists. I have no problem with recognizing such as my brothers and sisters in Christ after all. Why would I? I’m married to one. We agree on the essentials. They’re just wrong on eschatology.

Most of us hold this view I suspect because we grew up with it and we’ve heard it all our lives and it usually seems like the simplest view, but I honestly cannot hold to it. I can safely say there is not a single verse of Scripture on this that makes me wonder if such a scheme might possibly be true. That is how sure I am that at least the normally default position is incorrect.

What I advise is to just let people be willing to examine the reasons why people like myself hold the position that we do. An excellent book on this is Gary DeMar’s “Last Days Madness.” Another excellent resource is the Preterist Podcast of DeeDee Warren, which I am largely indebted to for providing much of the substance I have on orthodox Preterism.

I hope this clarifies my position. Do note I am definitely not making a statement about the salvation of someone who holds to a dispensational position. I hope in turn that others will realize that my position is also not a salvation issue. Those of us who are orthodox Preterists hold to essential Christian doctrine.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Misquoting Jesus

What do I think of Ehrman’s work? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Misquoting Jesus is an accomplishment and a shame to the Christian church both. It is not a problem in that nothing here can be answered. Indeed, it can be and has been. It is not an accomplishment in that new ground has been broken in textual criticism. There is nothing new in here about textual criticism.

It is an accomplishment in that it is the first book on textual criticism to stay for so long on bestseller lists, in fact, as far as I know, to even make it on the bestseller lists. It is a shame in that the church should have been writing such works that would have been liked by the popular audience and bought by them.

Of course, Ehrman knows that controversy sells very well. One could easily imagine a book hitting the bestseller list with the title of “The sex life of Jesus” or something of that sorts. Books that attempt to bring something “new” to the discussion of Jesus, like the Da Vinci Code or today, Zealot, are all the rage in the public sphere.

Unfortunately, these new works have something in common amongst all of them. There is nothing new in them. They are simply old ideas that are being repackaged for new people who have never heard of them. Those who read Zealot will not normally read someone like Craig Evans in response. Those who read Dan Brown will not likely read Ben Witherington in response. Those who read Misquoting Jesus will not likely read Daniel Wallace in response.

To that, it must be said the Christian church should be doing better. It is a shame we have Rachel Held Evans, Joyce Meyer, and Joel Osteen being household names in the Christian community, but we don’t have people like Dan Wallace, Ben Witherington, and Craig Evans being household names. This is because of a lack of reading and real study on the part of the Christian church where we are just interested in making “good” people.

So to get to Ehrman’s book on textual criticism, we have the natural start at the beginning of most Ehrman books where he shares his personal testimony of his deconversion and how it started with a Damascus Road experience in his studies where he was told that maybe Mark made a mistake.

As Evans has pointed out in Fabricating Jesus, Ehrman’s response seems out of proportion to what happened, unless one considers that perhaps Ehrman had put too many of his eggs in the Inerrancy basket. (And some of you wonder why I make it a case to tell people not to marry Inerrancy to their Christianity.) Unfortunately, his understanding of Inerrancy was also a modern western style that would have been foreign to the biblical authors. It would be amusing to see if we could somehow get the reactions to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John today to what we say are contradictions amongst their gospels.

In Ehrman’s story, he had written a paper defending the claim of Jesus about who the high priest was in the time of David in Mark 2. His professor wrote on his paper “Maybe Mark just made a mistake.” That it had a lasting impact on Ehrman is easily shown in that it is mentioned in so many works of his. Yet this initial charge is invalid. See Daniel Wallace being interviewed by Lee Strobel in “The Case for the Real Jesus.” More on that here.

Still, to be fair, Ehrman does present much information in this book that is highly valuable. For instance, on page 18, Ehrman points out that books played virtually no role in polytheistic religions. The Christians were different. They were people of books, as were the Jews who preceded them.

On page 29, Ehrman gives a contrast on how central books were to the lives of the Christians. While Ehrman doesn’t say it, the reason is the NT books were to be those that had apostolicity, antiquity, and authority. Of course, with antiquity, in this case, one means within the lifetime of the apostles.

Ehrman also points out on page 59 that a writer could dictate word for word to a scribe or simply give the main ideas to a scribe or some combination thereof. Both would have been used in antiquity. Unfortunately, this is the kind of idea that also works against Ehrman’s claim in Forged (See here also) that some Pauline epistles were not by Paul since he could just as easily have used a secretary, just as he did in Romans, a letter that is not disputed to be Pauline at all. In fact, a footnote indicates he knows of a leading work on this, that of E. Randolph Richards, one that is not heavily interacted with in Forged.

Ehrman’s thesis is that sometimes when scribes copied texts, mistakes were made. No one would dispute this. The most conservative NT textual critic would recognize and affirm this. The question is, were those mistakes really monumental ones that threaten doctrine? The answer is no. Let’s give some basic examples.

For instance in Mark 1 where we are told that Jesus was either moved with compassion or moved with anger in response to a leper. If anger, does this change our view of Jesus? Not really. Jesus had already had anger in Mark 3 and if Jesus is the embodiment of the OT God, the Jews would have no problem with that since they had in their history experience the anger of God.

But why would Jesus be angry at a leper wanting to be healed?

Probably because the leper chose an inopportune time. Jesus was speaking and healing was a private affair that could have been done later and not drawn attention to Jesus. Instead, the leper came forward while Jesus is speaking before an audience. Result? Jesus heals the man, but now his doing a healing causes people to come after him for that reason rather than for the message itself.

Another example given is Matthew 24:36 where there is a listing of who knows the time of the coming of Christ and we are told that no man knows, not the angels, nor the Son, but only the Father. Some manuscripts we are told omit “nor the Son.”

It is a puzzle why this should be problematic. If it is only the Father who knows and the Son is not the Father, then it follows that the Son did not know. Not only that, if this was wanting to be omitted because it’s embarrassing, why not omit it also in Mark?

Of course, we can bring in discussion on such topics as the long ending of Mark and the story of the woman caught in adultery. That these passages catch some people off guard is a testimony to the fact that we are failing in educating our church. This gets even more problematic with 1 John 5:7 where someone will be prone to use this to deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses only to be caught into the world of textual criticism that they never even knew existed.

Ehrman’s case is nothing new. The problem with his case is as in many cases, he has really only given one side of the argument, and that is the side that is meant to frighten his audience. That a book like Ehrman’s will spark concern among readers is problematic. That we did not educate our church enough to avoid it sparking concern, is an indictment on us. We must do better.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Resurrecting Jesus

What do I think of Allison’s case? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Resurrecting Jesus is a book by Dale Allison that contrary to the title, only spends about half the book talking about the resurrection of Jesus. The rest of it is spent on various other topics. These others will be helpful to the student of the NT, but the main case is still the last half.

Allison does believe that Jesus did bodily rise from the dead, but he doesn’t think we can really make a strong case for it, at least certainly not as much as Habermas and Licona do. In fact, it can be a downside to Allison’s approach that he decides to list his personal reasons why he would want the resurrection to be true throughout.

Before really getting to that, I would also like to explain that reading Allison is a mixed bag. When he does great, it’s something really good that’s a helpful insight, but there are times that he seems to make a basic mistake that can make one wonder about how much some questions were really considered.

For instance, Allison tells about the passage where Jesus says to hate your father and mother several times, but it never seems to dawn on him that Jesus is making a comparison statement. He is telling us that in comparison to our devotion to Jesus, our other obligations, including family obligations, must be secondary.

Also, Allison in discussing the chapter on Hell says that it is hard to reconcile the view in Paul of salvation by faith and judgment by works. I find these quite easy to reconcile in fact. If you are in Christ, then you stake your identity in Him and His righteousness becomes yours. If you are not in Christ, then God can only judge you on one basis, your works. If those are not perfect, then they do not add up.

Moving to the resurrection, Allison’s desire to be humble could be getting in his way of really wanting to make a stand here or there. He does side with the resurrection being real, but it is in a sense reluctantly. Could it be that if he did not have any personal desire at all, which could be difficult to think about of course as none of us approach Jesus neutrally, then he would not want to make a stand?

This is not to say that there are no valid insights in Allison’s work. Allison has much on the nature of the body in Paul as well as the fact that we shouldn’t assume the disciples would be grieving after the death of Jesus. Could they not just as much be angry? After all, they’d followed this guy for around three years and now he’s been crucified and thus shown to be a fraud! They would have been shamed greatly in their society having put all that they had in the following of this one man who they had every reason to believe to be the Messiah.

I find this to be an excellent point as we usually in the introspective conscience of the West look at the people in the Bible and think that they would have thought just like us. In reality, they didn’t. Now of course, it could be the disciples were grieving but in reality, we just don’t know. We can safely say there was a change in their behavior by looking at how they preached afterwards in contrast to knowing that they could meet the exact same fate as their proclaimed Messiah.

Allison does state which sides he thinks are stronger, but at the same time doesn’t seem willing to really enforce it strongly as he has a “What if?” approach in that there are some things that could possibly be. Of course there are possibilities, but we’re interested in seeing actualities and what the evidence itself really has to say.

Thus, I recommend this one, but I don’t recommend it for beginners. I think it’s far better for those who have sharpened their skills some on other areas as Allison will give you a lot to work through and think about. While I wish he would make a stronger case, we can be thankful for the case that has been made.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Demon-Haunted World?

How is a Christian supposed to reply to the demonic? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

One of my good friends is Jeff Harshbarger, who wrote two books on the occult which include personal testimony of his involvement with demonic powers and how he came out and is now a Christian. He is now the head of his own ministry, Refuge Ministries, where he uses counseling to help people get out of the occult.

But here’s something I really like about Jeff. He’s someone who admits the reality of demons, but he’s not someone who sees demons every where and despite having personal experience in the past with demons, he warns Christians to not spend too much time thinking about demons and not to worry about them.

Now keep in mind in all of this, I am indeed affirming that yes, I do believe demonic activity is real. I’ve heard too many accounts from people who I know to be intelligent and reliable that are firsthand accounts that I cannot deny that it has happened. I also have of course, as a Christian, biblical testimony to the fact.

Yet we must approach this realistically. As C.S. Lewis said in the Screwtape Letters “There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”

I have written plenty of times about my problems with a materialist view of reality, so if you’re on that side, this blog is not written to argue against you. This blog is written to deal with the problem that Jeff sees as well, and that’s Christians having too much of a fascination with demonic activity.

In fact, these Christians in having this can often take a view of Scripture that I consider to be occult. Scripture is treated as if it was a magic book and if you say this passage, you will ward off any demons that are in your presence. Now do I deny that there is power in the truth of Scripture? Not at all. What I have a problem with is its careless usage without a proper understanding of what is going on in a text of Scripture.

For instance, how many times have I seen a Christian use the passage about “My word will not return to me void.” When saying it, these Christians take it to mean that if you cite a passage of Scripture, it will be used and it will come back with results. I don’t think this is a Christian view of Scripture but an occult one.

For one thing, the passage is about the pronouncements of God Himself and what He’s saying is “If I make a statement, you can be sure that I will deliver on it.” It does not mean that we are the ones who can always deliver on His statements. God is not obligated to do our bidding. We are obligated to do His.

Furthermore, we often see people misuse Scripture, such as the devil in the temptation of Jesus, groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, and of course groups like the Word of Faith community that think faith is a force whereby they can shape reality.

When we have this fixation on the occult, it will not keep us away from it, but will in fact draw us into it. Up and coming apologists. I make this warning to you. There are many areas in apologetics I try to at least have a basic knowledge of. This is not one of them! I have been warned by those much greater in the field than I and much more skilled NOT to even touch this stuff. In fact, they themselves don’t do it because the occult has such a drawing power. That’s why I leave it to people like Jeff.

We will also have undue fear in our lives of anything that could seem to be “occult” when we have this focus. I have interest in many activities that I’m sure a lot of Christians with this kind of fixation look at as occult. I play the Final Fantasy games regularly. (In fact, one of the songs played at our wedding was from Final Fantasy) I have every Harry Potter movie that there is and I’ve read all the books. I make it a point to know the difference between fantasy and reality.

Here’s something more important. I make it a point to know Scripture even better. It is in knowing the true God that I am supposed to be drawn to Him more and more. It can be good and helpful to have a good angelology and that includes knowing something about demons and any student of Scripture should know something about them, but that is as a metaphysical topic and not an occult topic and is not meant to be a fixation.

When we live in fear of everything around us and constant worry about the occult, we also have the sad condition of making ourselves look ridiculous to the world around us. Most of the world around us already thinks we’re crazy. We don’t really need to do anything to add to that.

Also, our culture has a fixation on end times. Most readers of this blog know that my view in end times is that of orthodox Preterism, but I’m happily married to a dispensationalist and I have several good friends who are dispensationalists.

If you want to be one, be one, but this is a problem I often warn against for dispensationalists. Make your fixation be Christ. Some are unfortunately so caught up in knowing the identity of antichrist that they do not pay as much attention to the identity of Christ, the one who they are to stake their whole identity in.

Now in all of this, there is no saying that Christians should be reckless, but do not let your Christian walk be defined by paranoia of anything that could have a negative reputation. Take the time to examine each issue and be settled in your own mind. If you disagree with your brother, feel free to make a case, but listen to his case back on why he doesn’t have a problem with what he does. It could be you’re wrong. It could be he is. Follow the admonition of Paul. Let each be convinced in his own mind.

And overall, remember to focus on God and His revelation in Christ. Christians are not to live their lives in fear, and that includes fear of the demons.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 8/10/2013 Craig Keener

What’s coming up on this Saturday’s episode of the Deeper Waters Podcast. Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I hope you will be listening this Saturday as we have a major guest in the area of NT scholarship that will be joining us. Craig Keener will be on the Deeper Waters Podcast and we’re going to be talking about his book Miracles.

Miracles is a book that should have a powerful effect on NT scholarship as it not only lays out a case for the possibility of miracles, by demolishing the so-called arguments that Hume put forward, but by then giving what is needed in order to have reasons to believe miracles have taken place, and that is documented evidence.

Where does this evidence come from? From a time of Keener traveling around the world and collecting miracle stories. There are a number of stories out there in fact that have medical documentation that come with them and can be verified. Not all of them can be, but Keener will also give a reason why he thinks a story is more likely to be historical than that it isn’t.

It is difficult to see how someone could walk away from a work like this without at least having it be a possibility that their approach is wrong. Most critiques of it I see seem to try to go after one miracle claim and say “Because of this not seeming accurate, the rest of the book is wrong.” It’s quite difficult to do with a book that’s over 800 pages long and has 300 pages or so of bibliography.

We’ll be discussing these cases from around the world and in fact, the lines are open so if you want to submit your own case or ask a question about a case, then we’ll be able to do that.

We also will discuss cases that go beyond healing hopefully. Keener has in his books accounts of events like weather phenomena and also accounts of demon possession and exorcism, a kind of activity that is often mocked over here but is treated quite seriously in other countries where the dark side of spirituality is a known reality.

Also will include miracles not necessarily in the faith tradition of many. For instance, if you are a Protestant, what are you to make of the healing that takes place through Catholic locations, such as at Lourdes. Does this extend to other religions? Can Christians accept accounts of healing in other religions? How would we go about verifying that a miracle has taken place.

And of course, we can discuss such objections as “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” and “Why don’t these happen when video cameras are present?” We can also discuss the relationship between prayer and miracles, all the while making sure we avoid a kind of Word of Faith understanding.

Friends. I am really excited about the show that is coming up this Saturday and it is an honor to have as excellent a guest as Craig Keener on. The show will air from 3-5 PM EST and the call in number if you want to interact with Dr. Keener is 714-242-5180. I hope to hear from you!

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Why Should Non-Christian Youth Study Christianity?

If the Christians don’t have a reason for taking Christianity seriously, do non-Christians? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I’ve been writing this week about reaching the youth and making the case that youth need a reason to be Christian. At this point, it’s mainly been asking how can we keep those that are in the fold, inside the fold? While we want to keep them in, we must remember that Christianity is an evangelistic faith and we also want to get others to come inside and trust in Christ.

Now we have a problem. If we can’t give our youth a good reason to come to investigate Christianity, why on Earth should we expect that their non-Christian peers would do the same thing? If we’re wanting to draw others in to a church service, how will we do it by giving them what they can get elsewhere? How will we also do it if we tell them that they can’t get any more what they get elsewhere?

Let’s consider some aspects of what we’re telling a young person to believe if they believe in Christianity and some things we’re telling them to do as well.

We’re telling them to believe in miracles, what their friends would call “superstition.”
We’re telling them to “trust an ancient book.”
We’re telling them that it is important to be a good person.
We’re telling them that a man rose from the dead years ago.
We’re telling them that some behaviors are wrong and being a Christian means that they will say so. This will include behaviors deemed acceptable today such as sexual behaviors including homosexuality and pre-marital sex.
We’re in turn also telling them that they are to abstain from such behaviors which would mean taking the stance of chastity until marriage and if they’re virgins now, keeping that virginity until marriage.
We’re telling them to give up Sunday mornings and Sunday nights and quite possibly Wednesday nights.
We’re telling them to be honorable in their studies at school and avoid shortcuts like cheating.
We’re telling them that they could have limitations on not listening to the same music or watching the same TV shows or movies that their peers are enjoying.
Ultimately, we’re telling them to die to themselves and realize that they are not #1.

Now on the face of it, if you were told you had to do all of those things, you would want some serious reason to do them all. You don’t want to do that kind of activity just because someone tells you to do so, especially if you’re a young person who is probably more than happy to rebel against authority.

This is hard enough to do if you’re a Christian. How much harder will it be if you’re a non-Christian?

So what are we going to do to get them interested?

Some have said we need to change the system. We need to make Christianity relevant. These are the ones that constantly say we have to adapt to the culture.

Now in some ways, it’s fine to adapt. Most of us would not have a huge problem with using a powerpoint presentation. We all use the internet today in our evangelistic efforts and use cell phones, drive to churches with air conditioning, etc.

What do we not change? We don’t change our principles. We don’t change our claims. We don’t change our morality. Those have to stay the same. We can change how we present them, but we dare not tone down on Christianity. Keep in mind the early church did not do that. They came out with the most controversial message of all that went totally against their society, and they ended up conquering the Roman Empire in a few centuries on the weight of the message.

Still, this doesn’t say how we’re going to get non-Christian youth investigating Christianity. Here are my suggestions.

First, let the youth do the work. Our young people in the church have the potential to be evangelistic. They just need to have the tools so that they can do the job. Right now, Christian youth are on the defensive. The opposite worldview is assumed to be true and the Christians always have the burden. Let’s change that. Let’s have it that the other side is on the defensive. In saying this, I’m not saying Christians have no burden to prove their claims. They do. The reality is anyone who is making any claim has a burden to demonstrate that claim.

When we do this, then the non-Christians will want to avoid looking like the fool in the eyes of their peers. Consider the way it is with a bully. Suppose there’s someone in the school who has a following because he’s supposedly the toughest guy around and he gets his way by force. Then in comes a white knight figure who happens to be a black belt and catches said bully picking on someone who can’t defend themselves. Our white knight steps in and before too long, everyone knows this bully is no longer the toughest guy around. Which way does the respect go now?

Now suppose in another case that there is an atheist at the school who is known for embarrassing Christians. He’s the one that makes none of the Christians want to share their faith because word will get around to him and he’ll come and embarrass them with his questions. This time, our white knight is equipped with apologetics and sound scholarship. Off our hero goes sharing his faith and here comes the atheist to put him in his place, as has always happened.

Except this time it doesn’t! Our hero knows enough about the faith that our atheist is left stammering for answers and not knowing what to say. This also with all of his entourage watching. In fact, before too long, the Christians in the school are watching also. What are they learning? The dog is all bark and no bite. They are also getting the idea of “I want to be able to do that!” If they do indeed decide to go and learn like that, then they are the next white knights. This presents a problem for the atheist community at the school.

What do they do? Well they have to study! They have no choice! They’ve already been humiliated so they have to be prepared for next time. What happens if they consistently keep losing because our Christians keep studying and learning more and more? Here are some options.

They will just simply be quiet. This is a fine option to have as a result. The Christians are free to evangelize and the non-Christians say nothing. Their silence is a testimony to the ability of the Christians to speak intellectually, just as our silence is a testimony to the atheists of our inability to speak intellectually when not equipped.

The other option is that they will become Christians themselves. Now this could in many ways be the least likely, but if they’re really honest investigators, then we can expect that they will study the claims and find that it is indeed the case that Jesus rose from the dead and our Sauls will become Pauls.

Second suggestion. Hold debates at churches and other Christian groups. Lee Strobel has talked about the time a debate was arranged between William Lane Craig and Frank Zindler at Willow Creek Community Church. What was the result? This huge megachurch was packed. Traffic had to be directed and there were jams within about a mile radius of the church. People were rushing to get into the church. (As Strobel says, when was the last time you saw people running into a church?) Radio stations across the country were carrying the debate live. Some stations even had commentators! (The atheist just delivers a jab and the Christian counters with an uppercut!)

Do you think that got people talking? Do you think that got people curious? Note that some people came to the meeting that night atheists and left Christians. Atheist readers might be thinking they weren’t true atheists to begin with. Let’s keep this in mind. Atheists came to church! Atheists were interested in a debate on Christianity.

And if you think atheists aren’t interested in this, what are you doing on the internet exactly that you’re missing this?

Most churches can’t afford to have Bill Craig and Frank Zindler come to debate and most might not have the room, but they do have room for some debates. I am quite sure wherever you live, there is an atheist. (I am unfortunately not as sure that there is a Christian apologist.) If you have an apologist in the area and they’re willing, let there be a local debate. Announce to the populace that in the future, there will be a debate on atheism vs. Christianity and set a date and get the word out. Have it be on a time when more people are prone to come and watch what happens.

Rest assured, you will get people talking. Local papers will often include stories about this in their news in the area and if that’s online, there will also be comments discussing the debate. In these cases, it forces people to interact with Christianity.

Third, teach controversial classes. Let it be known to non-Christians that you’ll be teaching on topics that will be controversial and inviting non-Christians to come and give their challenges. Have a class on homosexual behavior. Have a class on why Jesus it he only way. Have a class discussing the problems of the new atheism. Have a class showing why Bart Ehrman is wrong on the Bible. Have a class showing why Mormonism is a cult.

Look at it this way. If you were a non-Christian, would you be interested in hearing that you were being invited to “Bible Study.” I don’t think so. After all, consider these options. “I can either go out with my girlfriend on Wednesday night where I have a good chance of getting laid, or I can go to Bible Study. Which one will I choose?”

If you were a non-Christian, which would you choose? The choice is obvious. (Considering how many Bible Studies go today, some Christians might want to spend the night with the girlfriend at the movies instead even if they had no intentions of having sex. After all, how many times do you hear about people really enjoying going to church?)

This is also why pastors need to talk on controversial topics. Your congregation has heard several times about being a good people. Christians are to be good people, but Christianity is not about ethics alone. It’s a claim that Jesus is the king of this world.

With that claim comes ramifications. Let’s consider them for young people. Jesus is Lord. What does that say about what someone can do with their boyfriend or girlfriend? Jesus is Lord. What does that say about how one should study for a test? Jesus is Lord. What does that say about the music you listen to and the movies and TV shows you watch? Jesus is Lord. What does that say about applying for a college or choosing a career?

Adults in the congregation have issues too! Jesus is Lord. What does that say about how I am to treat my spouse? Jesus is Lord. What does that say about what I do with my finances? Jesus is Lord. What does that say about the kind of employee I am. Jesus is Lord. What does that say about how I raise my children?

Then are the moral issues. What does that say about how I vote? What does that say about my view on the unborn? What does that say about the question of homosexual behavior? What does that say about how one handles the environmental movement today? What does that say about how one handles the question of war today? What does that say about economic policy?

Recently at our own church, shortly after DOMA, we went to the service and our pastor suddenly started talking about our national conscience and what it means when a nation forgets God. He never mentioned DOMA directly that I recall, but the message surely had that in the background. I can assure you it was a message that I was sitting up and taking notice of. Normally when I hear a message in a church it’s “Been there. Done that.” Before too long, I’m more interested in thinking about the book I’m reading or a game I can play when I get home or what I’ll be having for lunch. After hearing this message, I was greatly desirous to see what would be said in part two of the sermon next week.

I strongly suspect I was not alone.

Preachers. Please. Give your congregation something that they are not used to hearing. Don’t give them just the talk about how to be a good person. That’s application only. Give them the theology behind it. Give your church real doctrine. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a good thing. Doctrine is not the enemy. If we don’t have doctrine, we don’t have anything to preach! We have to give some message out there after all.

If you say “Well I might drive some people away” then keep in mind so did Jesus. Who did He drive away? Those who weren’t ready to make a real commitment. Who were left behind? Those who were. If you preach these kinds of messages, who will be left behind? Those ready to make a real commitment and with that real commitment will come real action.

I would rather have 10 people who were really committed than to have 1,000 who were so-so.

We won’t get people interested until we change the tide, and the tide won’t change naturally. It will require that we act. It will require that we step outside of our comfort zone. Christianity shouldn’t make us comfortable anyway. We’re talking about the rule of God over us all. This is the rule of God that confronts us all in our sinful natures. God coming and making a claim on our lives ought to make us all uncomfortable, Christian or not Christian. As a Christian, I certainly don’t get comfort at the thought that I have to go through a molding process to be who I need to be. That’s painful to have to look at myself and see sinful tendencies that I need to have eliminated. I’m glad for the end result, but the process is not enjoyable! A wife can look forward to having a baby of her own, but the process of giving birth to that new life is not one she looks forward to with pleasure.

We must remember that we are in a war and it is one we cannot afford to lose. What is the price? Mothers and fathers. I want you to hear these words. The stakes in this game are your children. If you were playing a poker game, before you decided you’d go all in, you’d want to make sure you had a winning hand. You don’t want to bet everything on a bad hand.

What are you willing to bet your own children on?

And if you’re not a parent, perhaps even staying single, what will you bet the future of your world on? What will you bet your friends’ children on? What will you bet your own life on? Do you want it to be what you get in the churches now, or do you want it to be a robust faith with strong intellectual defenses? Do you want to wager your money in a fight on a black belt or a white belt who has really strong passion?

You know the answer to that.

Act accordingly. This game has no reset button.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Why Should A Youth Be Christian?

Are we giving a reason for someone to take Christianity seriously? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Yesterday, I wrote about how Christian teenagers can really get into apologetics since they hold a position that is unpopular normally with their peers, and that is only going to be more of the case as time goes by and our ethics, particularly sexual ethics, start going downhill faster and faster.

In this scenario, we are encouraging young people to be Christian, but upon what basis? Just because Mom and Dad think Christianity has brought them a lot of joy in their own lives does not mean their children would think so. In our age it would be “Well Mom and Dad, that worked great for you, and I’m happy you found something that works for you, but it just doesn’t work for me.”

Most of our youth are already tacitly assuming that religion is something that you will either believe or you won’t. It is a matter of choice just like which ice cream flavor is the best. If you are a Christian, it is not because you are really making a statement about Jesus, the resurrection, or God’s nature. You are trying to be a good person. You can say you believe in the resurrection, but it’s just a belief. There’s no reason to hold it.

When you go to church and youth group, you either do something just purely fun, or you hear about how you need to be a good person and how much God loves you. You don’t learn anything about the nature of this God who loves you. You don’t learn what difference the Trinity makes or how much He acted in Jesus Christ or how that’s historically true or what the Kingdom of God is, but you learn about about how to be a good person!

Now once you’re out of that environment, what happens?

Well if you’re in school, you’re being taught ideas that you could find challenging to your faith, such as evolution is to some Christians. You could be learning about how to be inclusive and that everyone has their own opinions. You could be learning a relativism that tells you not to judge someone else. You will be surrounded by your peers who are quite likely sexual active and asking why you’re not the same way.

If you answer anything with “I’m a Christian” or “The Bible says so” then you will quite simply be laughed at and that is something no young person in school wants. In the high school setting, status is everything and so kids will spend money they don’t have to buy just the right clothes they don’t care about just so they can fit in. They will watch the same TV shows and the same movies and listen to the same music in order to know what their peers are talking about.

You can be sure, their peers are not reading the Bible or going to church to know what their Christian friends are talking about, if their Christian friends are even talking about Christianity at all!

When your child is on the internet, they are going to be subject to internet arguments on YouTube, Facebook, etc. to destroy their Christianity. This can be even if they are not intentionally seeking out such arguments. Not only that, the proliferation of pornography on the internet is extensive and sexual temptation is a great way to undermine someone’s Christian faith.

When they get to college, it will be even more an attempt to destroy their Christianity. You will have them facing off against professors who have 25 years of atheism while your kid has about a dozen years of Sunday School. Which side do you think is going to win? It’s not because atheism has the better arguments! It doesn’t! It’s because your kid doesn’t know the good arguments on our side.

In all of this, what reason are youth being given to be Christians?

To be a good person? Goodness is relative! It doesn’t matter, just so long as you don’t judge someone else!

Because the church is a fun place to be? They can get pizza and music anywhere and frankly, they’ll be looking at their peers and thinking “They seem to be having a lot more fun”, especially in the area of sexual temptation when they’re told all about the joys of sex on one hand and how it will be beneficial to them socially to sleep with their dates whereas on the other hand being told “true love waits”, but not being told why it waits really.

To have a good in-group to belong to? Their peers already are an in-group and an in-group that will matter a whole lot more to them!

What reason could they have for wanting to be Christian?

Some of you might have an answer. “Well it’s because Christianity is true!”

I agree 100%!

But do our youth know it is?

Without apologetics, they do not know it. They don’t even know what they believe! How can they know why they believe it!

Now imagine that they do know what they believe and also why they believe it. Imagine that they can be the Christian at school who knows this and when it comes to debate, no one can stand against them. Imagine the recognition they can get when they can even challenge the teacher in class on a topic and be right about what they say!

Is that going to help them? You bet!

As for the area of ethics, imagine that they have a background for ethics and they live such a life so much so that the girls end up saying “I want to date a Christian guy. They treat women a lot better!” This is so especially if they’re non-Christian.

Imagine if the guys on the other hand thought Christian women were a lot more respectful and at the same time, more challenging because Christian women know who they are and if you want to be with a Christian girl, they don’t go with just anyone! You have to shape up and prove you’re worthy!

Guys know this kind of thing intuitively. Most women don’t know the great power they have over men and if they give in early, then they lose that kind of power. Even in marriage, a woman who seeks to please her man in this area has a great power in his life. Don’t believe me? Consider even someone like William Lane Craig in an article he wrote on marriage advice.

5. Take steps to build intimacy in your relationship.

Wives: You need to realize what your husband’s #1 need in marriage is, what he wants most from you: sex! Yes, frequent, enthusiastic sex! If you do this, you will have a happy hubby, indeed. Unfortunately, here we confront one of those huge disconnects between men and women (you know, the Venus and Mars thing). A man achieves intimacy with the woman he loves through sexual intercourse; but a woman views intimacy as a pre-requisite for sexual intercourse. So if you’re sensing emotional distance from your spouse, what do you do? You seem to be at an impasse. If you find yourselves in this situation, then my advice is that it is the wife who should yield and be open to her husband’s advances. Otherwise what you’re doing is using sex as a weapon: saying in effect, “You first meet my emotional needs or I’m going to withhold sex from you.” That’s manipulative and unloving. Sometime after having sex, you can then raise the issues with him that you feel have created an emotional distance between you and seek to resolve them.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/marriage-advice#ixzz2bCaVKEk5

Yes. If Christian women start exercising this power over their peers, they will find they have much more respect. If a guy does not want to go with them because they’re not “easy” then that is the kind of guy that the girl should be with in the first place, Christian or not.

Then in turn, imagine if it is the case that their non-Christian friends seek to know what it is that is different about your children and ask them questions about it. What if your child is equipped and knows how to answer and can get his peers in school thinking about what he says?

Notice what happens in all of this. Your child is still a good person. In fact, you could argue that he is an even better person because he has a basis for his ethics and sees the difference they make.

Your child is still able to have fun. I am not against pizza parties and concerts and other fun activities. Kids should have fun! I’m against fun for the sake of fun being the greatest good in life. Even in my position, I still think it’s important to wind down and do something just purely fun every now and then to re-energize, but it’s not meant to be a lifestyle.

Your child is also popular. They’re the ones talked about not because they blend in with the crowd, but because they stand out from the crowd in a good way. They are the one that everyone wonders about. They’re the guy that the girls want to receive the love of. They’re the girl that the guys really want to work hard to impress.

How did this happen? You let them be taught what they believe and why. If your church isn’t doing this, you need to find out why and if they don’t change, perhaps you should change your church. This is their eternity we’re talking about after all and if I’m right, it’s also the eternity of their peers. Is that not worth a little bit of change?

If youth are going to stay Christian, it needs to be because they have reasons to that will stand up to public scrutiny and let them not be maligned in the public sphere. In fact, our adults definitely need that as well! Perhaps the new atheists and internet atheist types would not be so problematic if we did not drop the intellectual ball to begin with.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Youth, Popularity, and Apologetics

Why do youth get enthusiastic when presented with the opportunity to do apologetics? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I was listening to J. Warner Wallace’s podcast recently, and it’s one I encourage all of you to listen to, and he talked about presenting talks on apologetics and about how the youth get so enthused about it. I started pondering then why that would be and I’d like to share with you a suspicion that I have on the matter.

I have written much on this blog about how the ancient world was an honor/shame culture and we’re a more individualistic one, but that does not mean that we are totally devoid of any idea of shame whatsoever. Social status is everything to many a teenager. This is why so many of them buy clothes they might not care for and get into fads that they wouldn’t care for otherwise. They want to fit in with their peers and not be embarrassed.

Now picture a teenage youth who is a Christian. Is he on the outs with his peers in any way? Well if he’s a good and observant Christian, he’ll be a virgin (Since most teenagers in high school aren’t married). Will that lead to any shame to his peers? Yep. Especially since they consider “getting laid” to be a rite of passage and a sign that you are a real man or woman.

So what happens with a boy who’s seventeen and can drive and who is with the guys who are talking about their sexual exploits and the guy has nothing to contribute? If he is asked why he’s not “getting some” he replies that he is a Christian. Is that going to win him any friends? Nope. His “friends” there will most likely mock him for believing in antiquated ideas that science has disproven and how he needs to get with the times. Result? The young man is shamed.

Now imagine instead if he’s told the latter part about how his ideas are antiquated and instead, he’s able to make a rational case for the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Do you think he’ll be able to be treated the same way? Oh sure. His friends can still mock him, but he can take the mockery as a sign that they cannot answer his arguments. The young boy has honor then rather than shame. He might not be sleeping around, but he can hold his head high knowing he can stand up against his peers.

If your youth group meetings consist only of pizza parties and concerts, then your youth will not be able to stand against their peers. Besides, if a kid wants to get pizza or go to concerts, all he needs to do is get a job or else hang out with people who have one and who are feeling generous. The church needs to give youth something they cannot get from anywhere else.

Now we can talk all we want about how they should seek the honor of God rather than that of men, and that is true, but why should we add an extra hurdle to them? Furthermore, if they are shamed in public, then it is not just them that is shamed but Christianity that is shamed and in turn, God that is shamed. This is not saying that we can change God, but we can change the way the world views Him.

No one wants to be embarrassed, and that includes youth, but if our young people think they can do something that none of their peers can do, it will help them to have that honor that they seek, and there is nothing wrong with seeking honor. Remember the parable where Christ told us to take a lowly position at a banquet so our host would say “Move up to a better place” and we would be honored? He was saying that that is the proper way to receive honor. Don’t just go out and try to grab it. Let it be given to you.

There are many things that a young person can be ashamed of, but if they’re intellectually unprepared, it will be that being a Christian is something that they are ashamed of. In the face of temptation, they need a reason to be obedient rather than just “The church says so” or “Mom and Dad say so.” Neither of those will be seen as honorable positions. They need to know for themselves why it is that they hold the stance that they do. If they are waiting until marriage, they need to know why. If they believe a man rose from the dead, they need to know why.

That youth are eating this stuff up should tell us something. Youth don’t want to be shamed in the eyes of their contemporaries. They won’t mind holding a different position as long as they can defend that position. If they cannot, then the tide of social pressure could be enough to get them to abandon that and if their emotions and wills start acting against Christianity, it is only a matter of time until the intellect follows.

Let’s not risk having the youth be casualties of the faith. Let’s give them something that can allow them to walk tall in their Christian convictions and live them with passion. Let’s give them the reason for the hope that they have.

In Christ,
Nick Peters