Deeper Waters Podcast 11/9/2013: Greg Ganssle

What’s coming up this Saturday on the Deeper Waters podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Last Saturday, we had David Wood as our guest to talk about the problem of evil, and it was an excellent show. Saturday, we’re going to be discussing that again, except this time we’re going to have Greg Ganssle come on to join us.

Ganssle is an accomplished author on numerous subjects relating to God and the new atheism, and we could move over into some of those in fact, and will be joining us mainly to talk about evil, seeing as it’s a big topic and we couldn’t possibly cover it in one show that easily.

So why mention David Wood at the start? Because David Wood when he heard that Ganssle was going to be on this week said that “Greg’s the man.” I hope that when you tune in and listen to the show that you will also agree that Greg’s the man.

The problem of evil has often been seen as a difficult one for Christians and it’s difficult not so much because of the logical difficulties, which really aren’t there, but rather for the existential and emotional difficulties. It’s normal for so many of us to look at evil in the world and conclude that there isn’t a good God out there. Sadly, those who conclude that are also ignoring the only hope that we truly have for eliminating evil entirely.

Greg will help us to think through these issues as well as see how they relate to the question of atheism and explain for us if the new atheists really do have some substance to what they’re saying. We’ll also talk some probably about how one should properly think about God in light of the problem of evil.

Perhaps also we’ll get more into a pastoral side on this episode. How is it that someone who is going through evil can really see God in it? How could it be that a good God would really allow this kind of suffering? Why isn’t God doing anything about the problem?

The problem of evil has been one that has been with us for thousands of years and it is one that unfortunately keeps many people away from Christianity, but it is not insurmountable and it has been regularly answered. Ganssle’s work is one such attempt at answering it and I hope that as you listen in, you will find that you are blessed by getting to hear a way to cope with the problem of evil and see how it could be reconciled with the God that is professed to be the one true God in Christianity and what the Christian answer is to the problem of evil.

So please be listening in this Saturday to the Deeper Waters Podcast to hear Greg Ganssle speak on the problem of evil and on other topics that are related to this important one. The show airs from 3-5 PM EST this Saturday, November 9th, 2013. A link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Hitler’s Christianity

Can we say Hitler was a Christian? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

My ministry partner, J.P. Holding, sent me this book he wrote for my own review of it. While he has long held that Hitler wasn’t a Christian (And for that matter, wasn’t an atheist either), this book marked some in-depth research done on the topic of Christianity, since while Hitler wasn’t a Christian, he did make claims to be one.

As it turns out, the Nazi movement instead had a teaching called Positive Christianity. This would be a cult of Christianity that went so much against the Jewishness that existed in the Bible that even Marcion would not recognize the Bible.

Deeply revealing in the book is the idea of the way the German church was at the time of the rise of Hitler. Critical scholarship had been undermining the text, there was not a major emphasis on doctrine and most churches were not well-informed on doctrine, and charismatic speakers could easily win the day.

Also, there was the strong emphasis on nationalism as the German people saw themselves in a unique position. I find this a timely warning since I myself am a strong conservative who holds to conservative political viewpoints as well and who does love my country, but we should not equate conservatism in politics with orthodoxy in Christianity. I know several Christians who are political liberals. I disagree with them on that issue, but I do not deny that they are true Christians.

Holding in the book takes a deep look at what Positive Christianity believed and also at some of the most important figures in the Nazi movement. He also warns against sources that are not reliable that often try to paint out Hitler to be an occultist. While there were people in the Nazi party who had an interest in the occult, Hitler was not one of them.

Also, Holding covers issues that could be raised in objection such as the idea that the Nazis had emblems that said “God with us.” He also answers the question about why it is that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler.

Furthermore, there’s a section in there on the NT and asking if it is anti-semitical. Holding takes the works of leading scholars on the passages most often used by those who want to say the NT is an anti-semitical document and shows that these positions do not stand up to scrutiny.

It’s important for us to take a look at Hitler in his time and context in history and not read our ideas into what he said. Also, we must realize that as a politician as well, Hitler could say things that were politically advantageous without having them really be accurate.

If there was one area I would like to have seen addressed, it would have been the charge that much of what Hitler got came from Martin Luther supposedly. That is the only aspect that I did not see covered that I would have liked to have seen something on. On the other hand, many atheists should be surprised and hopefully pleased to realize that Holding does not base the holocaust on evolutionary theory as well, as I think there’s only one section where it really says anything about Darwinism.

In conclusion, I recommend this book. It will be necessary reading for any who engage atheists on the topic of if Hitler was a Christian or not.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

God, Please Kill My Enemy

How can the Bible speak about the longing for the death of your enemies? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Yesterday, I wrote a review of N.T. Wright’s book “The Case for the Psalms” and so I figured I’d start looking at the Psalms. Why not have some fun and start out with the category of Psalms that we consider to be the hardest? These are Psalms called Imprecatory Psalms.

Imagine living in America during World War 2 and going to a church and when the songs start playing, before too long you find out that you’re singing a song where you’re asking God to kill Hitler. While you could justifiably think that the villain should be dead, you seem a bit out of place singing about this at a church.

Yet when we open up the Psalms, we find the cries for the death of enemies and not just national enemies always, but personal enemies as well. A number of times these strike us as odd to find in the Psalms. Isn’t God the God of peace and love? How could it be that His holy book would contain Psalms like this?

For instance, consider the cry of Psalm 5:10

Declare them guilty, O God!
Let their intrigues be their downfall.
Banish them for their many sins,
for they have rebelled against you.

This is such a hard teaching for us to accept! After all, are we not to forgive one another for sins and shouldn’t God be the main one to do this? Why would we pray that someone would actually be judged for their sins? Isn’t this wrong.

Only if you think judging is wrong.

The Psalmist in this case is praying for justice for what he has suffered, but he’s not just pointing to his own suffering, but pointing out in the whole psalm that he has lived a righteous life while his enemies have not. Why should the wicked have the same place with YHWH as the righteous? Why should they get the same treatment?

And this is still our cry today! We often ask why do bad things happen to good people? When evil people suffer, we can expect that and it fits in, but when people we think are good suffer, then we just don’t know what to do. It is as if something is wrong, but the only way we can say something is wrong is if we are willing to admit the world should be a certain way, that the world should be just.

Another example is in Psalm 107.

“6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven[a] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the Lord,
that he may blot out their name from the earth.”

Tough words indeed, but yet the Psalmist is again wanting justice in contrast to the life he has lived. Note also that this is a good Middle Eastern way of handling the situation. We today in the West tend to hide our emotions and store them up. It seems like a fine situation until someone cracks one day and gets “road rage” or “goes postal” or something of that sort. Buried hurts don’t go away. They just wait for a time to resurface.

The Middle Easterners instead sought to express their emotions openly and powerfully for the most part. When a person died in the family, you would have professional mourners come by. It’s not that they felt loss or sympathy necessarily for the family, but they were to show the sadness of the people by their mourning. Some of this Christ condemned such as the Pharisees putting on a face to show that they were fasting. Expression done just to draw attention to one’s self was a problem. That would be a way of stealing honor in fact. Expression done to bring glory to God was what was commendable.

Why include the family? Simple. This would shame the person involved. Aristotle, for instance, thought that someone’s happiness in life could be altered after they were dead, and this was from someone who believed you ceased to exist when you died! How could your happiness change? Because your descendants could ruin the good reputation you’d built up. The prayer was for this person to be shamed.

We see an example of this in the book of Jeremiah. We are told that may it be for Jehoiachin that he will be remembered as childless and none of his children take the throne. Childlessness was seen as a curse. In 2 Kings 5, the leprosy of Naaman is said to cling to Gehazi and his descendants forever. In the ancient world, your ancestry mattered much more than it does here and having suffering in the lives of your children would show what a wicked soul you were.

Yet there is one such Psalm that most always gets mentioned by atheists.

It is Psalm 137 with this part.

“7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.”

If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard Psalm 137 used, I could probably retire right now.

So what is going on here? Why would someone be happy for dashing children against rocks?

In the Psalm, the captives of Judah are in Babylon and being mocked by Babylon. “Sing us a song of that great city of your God that we so royally destroyed!” These people were living in exile far away from their own homes and had seen destruction of their loved ones right before their eyes.

So what do they say? Let justice be done and the same measure done to you that was done to us. Not more. Not less. This was a typical Middle Eastern expression. Note also they’re not telling others to do this nor thinking of doing it themselves. They are pleading to God for this justice.

What are we to make of this today?

First off, justice is still a cry in this world. Whenever anyone speaks of the problem of evil, they are speaking of justice. If you do not think there is such a thing as justice, then you cannot say anything about the problem of evil.

Second, we can learn that all manner of expression, even that which we deem to be negative, is acceptable to God. This does not mean the way we express it always is. Blasphemy is always wrong. What it does mean is that God is interested in the cries of our hearts. In fact, later on, we’ll see in future blogs that even God Himself is spoken of accusingly, and He accepts it.

Third, we understand that ultimately, God is the place to go to for justice. Of course, there are times of self-defense and just war and such, but all justice comes from God even if it comes through secondary causes such as the institutions of man. For the ancients, all causality ultimately ended in God. The supernatural/natural distinction did not exist.

Fourth, we understand the cry for justice is good. God wants us to cry for justice and has promised that He will hear those who do make that cry.

When we look at it in regards to Israel’s place in history, there is grounds for believing in a future judgment somehow and a place in an afterdeath. After all, death would ultimately be the same for everyone in a materialistic universe. You die. That’s it. For there to be a true reversal of judgment would require some compensation after death, perhaps even a resurrection for some.

To long for this was also to believe that the God of Israel was to be on the side of Israel and would bring about righteousness for Israel and act on the behalf of Israel. It meant the promise to Abraham would be fulfilled. Those who blessed Abraham would be blessed. Those who cursed him would be cursed.

Many of us have enemies today and we cry out to God about them. The reality is, that’s not necessarily a wrong thing. There is no wrong in wanting justice despite what our society says, but if God does not act, it could be He has in motion the way of redemption for someone. Judgment is a work of God, but He would much rather forgive to those who are willing. Let’s remember God is a God of justice, but the same God had said of Him “In wrath, remember mercy.”

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: The Case For The Psalms

Do Christians today really need the Psalms? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

As readers of this blog know, N.T. Wright’s work is just gold to me. N.T. Wright brings so much life to the biblical text by sharing the historical context making it a deeper and deeper work to be appreciated. In fact, Wright was a major influence in getting me to switch my major to NT.

Yet in his book “The Case for the Psalms: Why They Are Essential”, Wright turns to this important OT book, a book I honestly rarely see scholars engaging with, except for how it relates to the NT. Wright does some of that, but he also brings out the importance of it on its own.

The Psalms we must remember were the hymns of the early church and the first Christians. They were before Christ, the embodiment of the hope of Israel. They longed for what it is we all longed for and what was ultimately fulfilled in Christ.

Of course, this is not to say that new songs should not be written. Indeed, they should be. Yet so many of our songs lack the rich depth that can be found in the Psalms. How many of the songs we sing in church today really usher us into the amazement of knowing God in Christ? I can say that one that certainly does it for me today is “Holy, Holy, Holy.” Whenever I hear that song, I simply have to sit down. I can’t stand and sing that song. I am humbled every time I hear it with the recognition that God is holy and without Him, I am not. With my interest in theology also, I am deeply appreciative that a song says “God in three persons, blessed Trinity.”

Perhaps our songs could learn something from the Psalms with the Psalms being the archetype that we all draw from when it comes to writing new songs today. These songs should embody our hopes that the Psalms themselves embodied. Wright goes into three areas.

First, the Psalms all hoped that God would redeem time. Many a Psalm points back to events when the God of Israel acted in the past in order to bring about a people. The reason of course was so that God could bring about a great future and that future had not yet come. Thus, the Israelites were living with a hope for the future and that hope was in the present unrealized.

Many of us today can still pray “How long O Lord? How long?” Yet the Psalmists were in many ways saying the exact same prayer and their stark honesty is refreshing. At times, the Psalmist chooses to point the finger not at fallen humanity or the devil or forces of evil, but at God Himself. Why is God doing or not doing something? The Psalms would be a way of saying to God the promises He had made and looking with the hopeful future trust if not present trust that He would bring them about.

Second, the Psalms hoped that God would redeem space. The land of Israel was the sacred land to the people. Yet at times they had been removed from the land and when they returned, they were still in exile as a foreign power was in charge.

Not only that, where did God exactly dwell? That was a question. God had made His presence known in the Temple? Where was He when the temple was not there? How they longed for it! This is of course fulfilled in the NT when we have the living temple of Jesus come and then we read in 1 Corinthians that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Finally, they longed for God to redeem matter. It is a gnostic view that this world is evil. Christianity says the world is good, but something has gone wrong with this good world. We can often get at the environmentalist movement for worshiping the creation seemingly, and some do, but we should not lose sight that this creation is the creation of God and it is good and He has a purpose for it.

All these three are still often our hopes and a work like this has taught me I need to go back and reread the Psalms and see the hope of Israel in them. It is not only myself but all of us who do. We need to look at the Psalms and ask why each Psalm was written and what was the purpose and notice the nuances of the beautiful poetry therein.

So once again, I am in debt to N.T. Wright for helping me to look at a portion of Scripture afresh. I am never disappointed by a work of Wright. May he write many more works and may God bless us with more scholars of the heart and caliber of N.T. Wright.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters 11/2/2013 David Wood

What’s coming up on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it.

Evil is an ever present reality in our lives and it is a great reason so many people come against the Christian faith. I would honestly say this objection is the most gripping one of all because it is often not only logical, but emotional. Most of us have times where our emotion can overpower our reason. Suffering can be one of those times.

My guest on the Deeper Waters Podcast episode for November 2nd is here to help! David Wood has been a member of Mike Licona’s Dream Team and has just recently finished his doctorate where he dealt with the problem of evil. David comes at this from a position of having seen evil directly himself and having come from a tough background as we will hopefully hear about on the show today.

We will be talking about all manner of evil on the show today and how it is that Christians are to respond. We have recently heard about shootings in this country. What are we to do when we hear of those? How does the existence of an all-good and all-powerful and all-knowing God cohere with the reality that is evil in our world?

Are we to just give a simplistic answer to people to just tell them to have faith? The challenge is real and my guest can really handle it. He has even debated the topic before with John Loftus of Debunking Christianity and might I add, put on a splendid performance as well, and this was even before he had had his doctorate on this passed.

David Wood has been debating with atheists for a long time and not only that, I consider him a good friend. He has helped my own family out in a number of ways which tells me that this is a problem he seeks to deal with for most everyone else and I am sure that you will find his perspective to be a quite unique one.

I also hope that what is said will be taken to heart. We will deal with many objections throughout the episode and there might be times when it’s not fitting for someone to hear. If you’re in extensive suffering right now, for instance, and caught up in it emotionally, chances are the logical problem of evil solution is just not the one that you need to hear right now. A lot of times on a show like this (And I have debated this topic on Unbelievable? so I know from experience) it can be asked how this helps those who are suffering now. It might not, but it does prepare you for the suffering that you will eventually be facing soon.

Please be listening then to Dr. David Wood on the Deeper Waters Podcast today from 3-5 PM EST. The call in number if you want to ask something on this important topic is 714-242-5180. The link to the show can be found here

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Should Christians Celebrate Halloween?

What’s going to be your response to all the little monsters running around tonight? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Tonight, several kids are going to be roaming our neighborhoods going door to door and asking for candy. Tonight also, a number of Christians are concerned. Should we even celebrate Halloween? Isn’t this a day rooted in paganism meant to worship the devil?

After several years of ministry work, I have become more and more suspicious of this idea that “X has its origin in paganism! Let’s not use it!” Chances are, I suspect most of you refer to the days of the week by their traditional names, names that come straight out of Norse mythology. Do you think you’re honoring paganism?

Some people think the wedding ring comes from a pagan tradition. I’m not here to say if it did or not, but let’s suppose it did. How many of you out there are going to chuck your wedding ring at this point so you can be free from the stigma of paganism?

As Christians, we are called to go out and to redeem the world. We are not called to run in fright from it, and unfortunately days like Halloween often get Christians in a reaction mode instead of a proactive mode. It is this idea that we must avoid any taint of something that comes from pagans.

The greatest philosophical traditions we have today find their roots in Plato and Aristotle. They weren’t Christians. Shall we reject the syllogism? Greek plays are still around today. Should we avoid reading those? If we were to visit Greece or Rome, must we avoid the temples in order to avoid paganism?

Or should we say what Paul said, that these are not gods at all. We can eat meat in the marketplace with confidence because we know the idols are just statues. We can also give out candy with confidence in the marketplace because we know today belongs to the Lord, just like any other day!

When we run from the threat of paganism constantly, we are only getting ourselves into a fear mode thinking that God cannot overcome the world. I can point to several activities out there I enjoy that some Christians will say are demonic. I can point to some that you likely enjoy as well that some Christians will say the same thing about.

I grew up playing RPGs like D&D and Collectible Card Games like Magic: The Gathering. I never once had any inkling to get into the occult because of it. I have read all the Harry Potter books and I own all the movies. I still play Final Fantasy to this day.

Now some of you might think you don’t do anything like that. Okay. Do you read a Bible other than the KJV? Do you know there are some extreme groups out there that would say you’re doing something demonic? Yes. They really exist. Some Christians are so scared of demons that they lose sight of the fact that God is greater than the demons.

My wife has a story that several years ago when she was in Middle School, she went out walking with the dog and local kids starting making fun of her. She came in crying to which one of her Dad’s friends, a big muscular guy said “Do you want me to go out walking with you?” Now I can assure you as much as she could be scared to go out walking again, if she had this friend with her, she wouldn’t be so scared. If any kid tried to give her any lip, he’d be right there to deal with them.

In the same way, you have the God of the universe on your side. Why on Earth should you be afraid of something like a demon? Now I’m not advocating being cocky or foolhardy. Don’t go out there looking for this stuff, but don’t be out there living in fear of it either.

If you’re scared you’re going to be influenced by paganism on this day, well it looks like you already are. You’re letting it control your life in that you’re unable to celebrate a day when all that is going on for the huge majority of people is just kids going out and getting candy.

If you want to be concerned about the well-being of your kids, and you should be, I wouldn’t be scared about getting candy, save for health and dental reasons, but be concerned about real threats that are out there for your children.

Be concerned about the rampant materialism that ends up in greed wanting to get hold of your kids. Get concerned about the loose sexual ethics (or lack thereof) that could get your kid sleeping with their date on prom night. Get concerned with the atheism in colleges and universities today that are out there seeking to deconvert your children. These are real threats and these are the ones to be concerned about.

As for the origins of Halloween, let’s suppose for the sake of argument, it’s pagan. So what? Really? So what? Yes. So what? If we look at Psalm 51, our origins are that we were conceived in sin and we have been redeemed. Are we saying the God of the universe is too powerful to redeem a day? In fact, if the original goal of the day had been to worship the devil and today, kids run around just getting candy, I’d say “Job well done!”

And when you give our candy, don’t be boring in it. If you’re a Christian family, you make sure you give out the best candy on the block! You do your best to make sure kids know that your Christianity does not mean you live in fear of the world.

And if you come by the Peters’ household, we’ll have some waiting for you.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

What Only You Can Do

Is there a task of the Christian husband that only he can do? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

I love doing apologetics. It really lights up my day. There is a great joy in getting to enter the arena of debate. There is a fascination about learning all that you can do and being able to walk with confidence in your worldview having done the sufficient study. There are extremely exciting times when the truth of your worldview really hits you and it ends in rejoicing. There’s something special about getting to help someone out of doubt. Of course, being an apologist has many struggles, but it has many blessings.

But I also know that I’m not the only one doing this. There are thousands of others out there in the world doing what I do. We all have to work together as we all have one common goal. That common goal is that we are to defend the faith once and for all delivered to the saints and we are to affirm Christianity to a world in need of the gospel.

If I was seriously incapacitated for a time, I know several other people who I could count on who would be willing to do blog posts for me here if need be. That would be no problem. I know others would be doing the debating. That would be no problem. I could find someone else who could host my show for the time being. That would be no problem.

Yet there is a work that I have (And work is not the best term to use still) that no one else out there can do.

No one else can be a husband to Allie.

Allie and I have lately been going through Love and Respect, which I checked out at the library for us. We read a chapter every night and it’s being a firm reminder to me on how I need to be a better husband. I did disagree with something said last night in asking who should make the first move. Should the wife be more respectful or should the husband be more loving? The real answer to that question is “Yes.”

Who makes the first move? Irrelevant. The fact is as soon as you learn what you need to do, you move. A wife should always be seeking to grow more in respect of her husband. A husband should always be seeking to grow in love for his wife.

And so I’ve been reading this book and getting convicted more and more on how I need to be more loving than I am, (And Allie already does consider me a very loving husband) and this is especially so because no one else can do this job. Allie’s parents can love her as parents. Her in-laws can love her as in-laws. Her brother can love her as a brother. Her friends can love her as friends.

None of those relationships is like the one that she has with me.

I am the one who is to sleep by her side every night. I am the one who is to present her before the throne on the day of judgment to see how I’ve done with my family. I am the one who is to provide for her. I am the one who is to protect her from harm. I am the one who takes her to the hospital or doctor if she’s sick.

Now some things others can do to an extent. Other people can listen when she has problems for instance, and they should. Others can handle doctor trips if need be at times, but there will definitely be no replacements for things like, say, kissing my wife every morning before I get out of bed. Sorry guys, but no one else gets that privilege and she’s not accepting applications anyway.

I have told many men in my field that if you go out there and you be the best apologist that you can be and answer every question and have every opponent quaking at the thought of having to deal with you, but you fail with your wife, then I count you as a failure overall. Spouse comes before work and career.

If you know me on Facebook, it’s even why I started a group today on there for Christian men who are married or plan to get married so we could come and help one other to fulfill the calling that we have to be good husbands to our wives.

Marriage is being under attack from the world today and it’s of utmost importance that we defend it. We cannot truly defend it unless we are truly living it. One of the best ways to get people to honor marriage today is if we seek to honor it more ourselves.

People in any kind of ministry, please remember that you do not have to save the world of everyone else, but you are to save the world of your wife. You are the greatest hero she has and your first priority will be to her. Let others take the slack in ministry if need be and count on them to help you, but make sure she knows she can count on you to love her properly.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: The Demon-Haunted World

What do I think of this work of the man who brought us Cosmos? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Carl Sagan is famous for saying “The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be.” While as a Christian I disagree with this sentiment, there is a debt of gratitude owed to Sagan as Sagan was one of those people wanting to popularize science for a non-scientific audience and open them up to scientific thinking.

I read Sagan’s book after an atheist recommended I read it in response to my suggesting he read Keener’s “Miracles.” I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw in Sagan’s work. While Sagan is definitely an atheist, one does not find the usual vitriol one has come to find in the works of the new atheists. I often had the impression that Sagan would have been the kind of atheist I could sit down and reasonably chat with concerning why I hold the position that I do.

In fact, much of what is in this book should be amenable to Christians easily and if some of it is not, that could point to a great insecurity that exists in the mind of the Christian who has that fear. Why should we who think God revealed Himself in Jesus in this world think that further study in this world will somehow disprove that truth? (And besides, if it did, we should be thankful. Who wants to go through life believing what is untrue?)

We should be applauding the work of Sagan to get science into the mainstream and support scientific research. I also wholly agree with him that our young people are not thinking enough, though that does not just extend to science, and need to have a greater education rather than just being entertained all day. I would support entirely seeing shows on TV that would grab the interest of young people so they could learn about areas such as science.

When I was in school, for instance, we would watch 3-2-1-Contact. I know several others who grew up watching people like Bill Nye, the Science Guy. While I am against just purely entertaining our children, I think there are ways we can do education that are attractive to students and make them want to learn. I know today a number of adults that still remember rules of grammar and math by thinking of old episodes of Schoolhouse Rock.

Yet there are some concerns. I think too often Sagan puts all the eggs in the science basket. Science is an important piece of the puzzle, but it can too often be made the whole deal. This could be understandable however since science was the passion of Sagan and it’s easy to see everything in light of that passion and think it is the most important.

Sagan is certainly right to go after the gullibility in our culture with pseudoscience, as he should, but when it comes to him stepping out of his field, he is too quick to also buy into gullibility. We must all check ourselves for bias and it’s too easy to think a story or claim meshes with our worldview and is therefore reliable. i will not thus comment on Sagan’s science. I am not an authority there. But there are areas I do consider myself an authority in that I think Sagan gets wrong. It is a warning to all of us.

For instance, on page 37, Sagan sees metaphysics as philosophy or as he says “Truths you could recognize just by thinking about them.” This is not an accurate description. Metaphysics is really the study of being as being. It is true to say that metaphysics has no laboratory while physics does, but this is the problem of saying that a branch of knowledge is not as valid because it does not go about the same way another one does. History has no laboratory. Mathematics has no laboratory. Literature has no laboratory, yet we would not say that those are less valid branches of knowledge. It is a mistake to see the way that science does what it does and think every other way is insufficient.

Also, Sagan makes the claim that Deuteronomy was a forgery found in the time of Josiah. Considering works have been written on Deuteronomy showing that it fits in perfectly as a Suzerain treaty which dates to the time it is traditionally thought to have been written in, this is problematic. In fact, one could hardly say it agrees with Josiah. Why would Josiah write a document that would put his kingship thus far in a bad light by showing how far he had failed?

I also think Sagan should be taken with a huge grain of salt when talking about the medieval period, especially since his main source seems to be Gibbon. (Another problematic area comes in when one would like to check Sagan’s sources. He does say what books he uses, but no page numbers are cited so one cannot know where the claims are found.) This is especially with regards to Witch Trials and the Inquisition. More modern readers would be benefited by seeing a work like Kamen’s on the Spanish Inquisition or seeing the research of James Hannam on the medieval period.

There are other areas where Sagan just gets facts wrong such as thinking the transmission of the biblical accounts would be like a telephone game (page 357) or that the Bible teaches a flat Earth (300) or claims of genocide in the Bible. (290)

Also, on page 278, Sagan thinks an infinite universe would be a problem for Christian theism. I do not see why this is. It would mean changing one’s interpretation of Genesis perhaps (Though I hold to Walton’s view so that would not be much of a problem) but from a Thomistic perspective, an eternal universe still depends on God.

Commendable in all of this also is the fact that Sagan does not deny the failures of science. Science has brought us cures for diseases, but it has also brought us weapons of mass destruction. The solution to this is not to teach more science, but rather to teach more morality. Science can be just as badly used as religion can be. One can say science works by pointing to launching a man to the moon, but one could also say it works by pointing at a missile hitting a city. A difference with religion of course is that the man who launches a missile on innocents is not violating any principles of science, but a Christian who murders an innocent man is violating a principle of Christianity.

Despite all this, I found myself rather pleased ultimately by Sagan’s work. While I do think he puts too much in the science basket, it is understandable and one would hope that today’s new atheists would learn to be a bit more like Sagan. I can thus commend this work to others in understanding the importance of science for our society.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

An Unarmed Opponent

Would you be willing to fight an opponent who is unarmed? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

If anyone has seen me, they know I’m not much physically. I weigh about 120 pounds and don’t have any muscle mass to me at all. Now I can run pretty good and I do seem to have limitless energy for physical work, but I’d be practically useless in a fight.

Now let’s suppose that I’m in an alley somewhere and I have an opponent who I know seeks to harm me physically. My opponent is unarmed. I have a gun that I know how to use well and it’s loaded and I’m ready to fire.

Who are you putting your money on in this fight when the guy charges at me?

A gun is a great equalizer.

In our modern age, we are facing an onslaught in the church. Now let’s face it. A lot of us might not be intellectually gifted, and that’s okay. Not all of us are physically gifted, but that doesn’t mean we’re necessarily useless physically. When we look at what’s going on outside the church, we can look at ourselves and wonder if we can do much.

Is there some sort of equalizer like a gun?

There is.

It’s called truth.

Most of the apologists that you know out there and admire are not necessarily intellectually gifted. Many of them are just people who have worked hard, much like someone might have a natural bent towards athletics in the world, but a lot of them get where they are simply because they wanted to and worked out hard at a gym and practiced to get to where they are.

It can be easy to look at the apologetics world and see what is being done and think that you can’t do that much. You’re not really a thinker too much. You don’t know how to do this deep philosophy. You’re someone who considers yourself ordinary.

It is also wrong to think that way.

I honestly do think I have a natural bent towards intellectual matters, but I know most of what I’m doing today is because I work at it. It’s because I’m spending time reading and asking questions and listening to podcasts and taking place in actual arguments. Everyone has to work in this field. Just like in sports, there is no such thing as success without effort.

I’d like you to know something about your opponent also.

They’re not that tough usually.

Seriously. Most opponents I meet are like little dogs. They like to bark a lot and act like they’re big, but they’re not. The majority of arguments you will come across from people have no substance from them.

Which ones do have substance? Usually from the atheists who are taking this seriously, and they’re the ones who are also open to evidence. The ones that tend to bark the loudest are the ones that are most resistant to any real dialogue whatsoever.

What would it take? Just a simple reading of simple apologetics books designed for the layman. Books like “The Case for the Real Jesus” or “Cold-Case Christianity” or “Reinventing Jesus.” Of course, if you want to read more scholarly books, feel free!

It would mean spending your time on a commute to work listening to a podcast like my own Deeper Waters Podcast, or other podcasts like Unbelievable? Keep in mind the reason we do this kind of work is so we can equip you, the layman, so you will be ready. My greatest hope would be that I would be able to help people so much that they don’t really need me any more.

In reality also, most of your opponents have not looked at the arguments that they throw at you. “Christianity was copied from pagan myths!” It is most likely that the person who says this has never read any of these pagan myths. They have just read it online. If you are reading informed people and getting information from them, you will be ahead of the game. If you know what you believe and why you believe it both, you are prepared for much of what you see out there.

And besides, don’t you want to do that anyway? Don’t you do that in every other area of life? Why not do that with the most important area of your life, your worldview you live by every day?

And if enough of us do this, we can start having our Christian revolution. We can start making an impact for Christ. We do not need to fear our opponents. They are little dogs that are making much bark, but their bite is not there. You do not have to be a genius or total academic to defeat your enemy. You just have to be informed.

Something you should be anyway.

Please make sure you are informing yourself. To lower yourself intellectually if that is your concern is not an option. You may not have the kind of mind you desire, but you should love the Lord with all the mind that you have.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 10/26/2013 Brent Sandy

What’s coming up on today’s episode of Deeper Waters? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Recently, I reviewed a book called The Lost World of Scripture and recommended it as one of the best books I have ever read on getting a handle on the world of the Bible. Today, I am pleased to say that one of the authors of this fine book, Brent Sandy, will be my guest. Due to scheduling complications, we are also holding the show a little bit later and thus it will air from 6-8 PM EST today.

If I were to recommend one book on understanding the world of the New Testament it would be this one. I hope that this interview with Brent Sandy will bring out all the benefits that you’ll get by reading this book. (Unfortunately, John Walton did not come along for the ride this time, People who want to hear my interview with him on The Lost World of Genesis One are advised to go here.

The Lost World of Scripture brings out more than any other book I’ve read on the topic just how different the culture was for the average person back then than it is today. It is also a highly readable book yet one that still uses some of the best scholarly information that is out there. If readers will take the time to absorb the material that is in this book, they will approach the text in a far better light.

But what about Inerrancy? Now that will have to be discussed as this book will be controversial to some who hold to a more wooden form of Inerrancy. The authors do hold to Inerrancy however and that is an important part I think of why it is that they wrote this book. They want to make sure that we are really understanding what it is that the Bible is saying and are applying to properly.

I recommend that you keep this episode on reference and perhaps even consider taking some notes while you listen. (Unless of course you’re driving at the time) Learn the material in here and you will be able to deal with a good number of the skeptical objections that you will encounter in the world when it comes to questions about the nature of Scripture.

Skeptics of the Bible should also read this book. What happens too often is that too many skeptics think they’re informed on the Bible when they’ve simply read their own culture into the text, said it doesn’t make sense, and moved on as if they’ve demonstrated that the Bible is false. Not all do this of course, but too many do this. (Of course, too many Christians also read their own culture into the text and think they find biblical justification for their own biases.)

So please be joining me today to hear Brent Sandy speak on this important topic and when the book comes out on December 1st, please be sure to pick up a copy. The show airs from 6-8 PM EST and the call in number is 714-242-5180. The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters